Power Steering WIERD(!)

[WPOD]

I'm going to post this in the hopes that perhaps somone has either seen this, or has a solid idea of where the problem may lie:

Car: 2001 GTP. Front end: recent timken Whl.Brngs, Fbody discs, C6 calipers-Not hanging, braided hoses, No worn Susp. parts from the inner tie rods out. This setup has about 5K miles on it, the car has 111Kmiles. Problem, ~1oo miles ago it began.

Problem Circumstance: The Steering behave normally at all times EXCEPT> When making a hard, tight (typically a street corner) Right hand turn Only, After a Moderately Hard to Hard Break application. This is the ONLY time the problem occurs.

Problem:Under the above situation, there is a loss of power assist (Not Magnasteer BTW), which returns as soon as the turn is complete. There is no detectable brake pull, rotor and caliper Temp checks show consistent temps side to side all the way up to 600F+ on eash rotor.

Checks performed: No leaks, PS pump full, Modis scan reveals no abs codes. Driving in a large parking lot and replicating the behavior shows that if a hard right is performed Without First Braking, there is No loss of power assist, also there appears to be no loss of power when the car is placed in neutral and similar manuevers are performed. A medium speed "Cone Style" slalom also reveals no loss pwr assist.

Thoughts: Perhaps the pump is a bit weak, perhaps the fluid is shot and a change would help, perhaps the rack may have failed in such a way that this is in fact the Power section of the rack. Perhaps a Shot of lucas Power Steering Fix in a bottle would "fix" it(Gulp!)...And I've got a 99 gtp with 133K miles that works fine-and a 97 gt with 260Kmiles that works as well.

So where to start? Changing the rack is the biggest PIA, the pump is less work, Fix in a bottle is the least. But since this ONLY occurs immediately after, Or During heavy Brake Application, How is it that the Brake system can be ruled out? If the deceleration G's were to blame, the problem should occur on left hand turns as well, which would make me think that the binders are involved--like one side is hanging...But brake temps don't bear this out concluively, even after 10-15 minutes of parking lot punishment. Also there are no wierd noises from the pump or rack that I can hear while driving and the behavior is no different with the ABS/TC turned off.

I think I've covered about everything, but if anyone has ideas on further testing, or has experienced anything like this, I'd Really Love to hear From You! Thanks in Advance, Mike

PS, the 99 and 97 are--as of today, complete, and are designated parts cars, so I can swap watever I need-provided it fits, and I really should list them in the F/S section for anyone that nees cheap or free parts. I'll try to do that soon.

[Scottydoggs]

id try a fluid flush first.

fords used to have a issue with hard braking and loss of power steering, cop cars had the most problems ( crashing) this was due to the rmp's of the engine becoming to low to power the p/s pump and then a loss of power. maybe this is happening to you? if your rpm's are dropping when you brake and turn????

[WPOD]

Scotty, Thanks for the suggestion,

Thought about the rpm drop thing, and yes, there is some, 100-200 rpm maybe? (rt or left, tho)--but the right hand only" thing is what perplexes me...but perhaps that's a red herring(?) plus that's why the Neutral testing --which I thought would be the lowest idle, but maybe I'm wrong. And I remember the Crown Vic Cop car thing, seems it occurred after repeated rapid left-right-left or vice-versa, as in a pursuit "fishtailing" in a fully loaded car. I thought they retro fitted them with better pumps...Guess I'll try the flush and see. I'll post the result when I get it done.

[Scottydoggs]

the years following that ford problem is when the po po went back to GM lol ford fixed it tho. my ex had a crown vic, with a 5.0 in it, a 98 iirc it had that problem for sure.

in neutral theres nothing to stop the idle rpm's, rolling they should be good enough to turn, like your seeing.

[WPOD]

hey thanks for the response-I see you're in jersey as well (don't know how far from Toms river) but if you need any parts off either of the cars I have, they're yours for the taking. Esp, the 97 GT. It has 260k and a bad trans but otherwise runs ok, both cars are still complete. Thanks, Mike

[Scottydoggs]

2 hrs north in hackensack. im like 8 miles from the GWB off rt 80.


my check engine light just went off again, so for now im sitting pretty again. thanks for the offer.

[WPOD]

OK, I did a thorough fluid change, with no effect. So I proceeded to drive the car again and observe the problem in more detail.
Once again, It only "seems" to lose power on tight, or even just slight attempts to steer towards the right, and then Only after or during a brake application, and the more powerful the application, the greater the steering "Fights" back. I also observed that this happens at 2500rpm as easily as it does at idle. Now if i drive around a parking lot, pop it into neutral and let the engine idle, I can steer and swerve either way to my hearts content without loss of "power" OR the feeling thereof, UNLESS I first apply the Brakes!

So this all makes me feel that perhaps my ABS module is applying pressure to the left front wheel (I would assume that would make it harder to turn right), and yet when going in a straight line hard braking never gives the sense that there is a brake imbalance or any sort of pull(!)....Wish I knew one of the GM engineers that designed this thing! Also, turning off the ABS has no effect on any aspect of this behavior. I've also bled the brakes several times--with a pressure bleeder, the last time was just a few months ago, and that was just to see if the fluid was showing signs of overheat (it was clear, air free, and smelled normal)
I'd love to hear from someone that has any ideas--or experience with this! Mike

[WPOD]

Rack revisited! All was good until the right wheel bearing-cheapo i suspect-quit sending a reliable ABS signal (per snapon Modis) and now I've got the light and It Turns Hard to the right-Most of the time. So I plan to do the wheel bearings first-Raybestos brand FWIW, and then probably the rack I suspect (Which IS Magnasteer I see, even though the yutz at Napa assured me it Wasn't!), BUT, just to make this even more of a pre-winter PIA, I almost immediately got a P0102 (Mass or volume air flow low input)-But it reads 1.4Lbs./min, which should be on the good side (higher) SO I Cleaned, then swaped MAF sensors, changed T-stats (the old one was gettin'lazy P0128), Cleared the codes And now.........IT stumbles/Dies/requires excessive cranking and has a hunting idle, Especially when cold. First warm up and all seemed good-then the only way to be sure it'll stay running is to keep the revs at 3-4K by holding it in gear so that when it cuts out it'll re-light before it hits Zero! Only dared get a couple miles around the hood Bfore I parked it-AND, No Codes!!!! What's Mother to do? I need a hero....I do have a complete spare-2000, while mines a 2001, but I figure most of the fuel related hardware should swap. Wish I knew where to start. (Help Scotty!) thanks, mike