best battery for under the hood?

Your arguments concerning SPL aren't hated or disputed...but they don't seem to relate to the ops request. If he has to post this thread without knowledge of batteries within the realm of SPL, on a pontiac forum on top of that, is he really looking to squeeze out every last decibel? Power isn't even a concern in SPL until you've gone through hell with models, measurements, build, and finally install.

My first thought; this kid wants a reliable daily driver. Gains should be modest due to playback quality and again...all the added adjectives and experience of some trying to push their own agenda have no place until th op says otherwise.

My original argument is that we have a seasoned spl competitor[casper] who has demonstrated time and time again that extra crazy batteries are unnecessary and running off the alt. is fine so long as you're properly grounded. Since the op is obviously well below those applications there's no need to recommend expenditures that won't compliment his goals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by matt5112

What did just the alternator net you?

What did just the battery net you?

Without testing separately, you cannot be 100% which resulted in the gain you saw.

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What aren't you understanding? 1 battery alone gains me .2V. Then another battery with an alt gains me .4V. Since you seem to want to help out 1800 here, lets assume the third battery didn't help one bit. The alternator helped .4V then.
Price of the alternator, I believe it was around $450-550.
My batteries in the rear were Deka 9a31s, I got them for $100 a piece.
So assuming that the alternator gained the whole .4V, .4V for $450 or .4V for $200.
I can go outside tomorrow and make a video if you want me to. Oh, and here's even something I failed to mention, and surely you can understand this one. When you experience voltage drop, that's when your amplifier demand is dipping into your battery bank. When I'd turn my car off for the Street B and C burps, my starting voltage would be around 13.2V. When my car was on, my starting voltage was around 14.7V. Funny, 13.2V to 12.6V with two batteries, and then 14.7V to 13.0V. Seems like it's the batteries doing most of the work there.

Why are you arguing about SPL setups? Nobody else is talking about that.

In the ops daily driver...how is a kick ass battery going to help him at 13.6V going down the road? Therefore, save some cash and get a battery that fits those requirements.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT

Your arguments concerning SPL aren't hated or disputed...but they don't seem to relate to the ops request. If he has to post this thread without knowledge of batteries within the realm of SPL, on a pontiac forum on top of that, is he really looking to squeeze out every last decibel? Power isn't even a concern in SPL until you've gone through hell with models, measurements, build, and finally install.

My first thought; this kid wants a reliable daily driver. Gains should be modest due to playback quality and again...all the added adjectives and experience of some trying to push their own agenda have no place until th op says otherwise.

My original argument is that we have a seasoned spl competitor[casper] who has demonstrated time and time again that extra crazy batteries are unnecessary and running off the alt. is fine so long as you're properly grounded. Since the op is obviously well below those applications there's no need to recommend expenditures that won't compliment his goals.

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Everyone wants the max or at least 90% out of there amp. Set the gain with an o-scope/dmm, use steve meades new thing/some amps are even coming with clipping indicators now... you want the power you paid for.
Tell me this, off a 120A alt, and a single battery under the hood, how far do you GUESS the voltage will drop for a 2600RMS amp, when nominal impedance is low?

Music or sine waves?

Theory states that doubling power adds ~3 decibels to your output. It takes ~10 decibels for the average person to perceive "doubled" volume. At some point design and reliability should account for the end result too.


Edit: http://www.bcae1.com/speaker.htm

average driver converts 99% of the energy applied to it into heat.

Lot of thermal compression to be concerned with.

LOL we can get picky, let's just say music, but a song like No Hands- 4 different frequency will be sure to keep nominal impedance fluctuating, and constant bass.

And 1800, doubled volume to the ear is tremendous, maybe you've never jumped from a 140 car to a 150 car.. or even a 150 to a 160. Are you trying to tell the OP that he should only pull 1000 watts out of his 2600 watt amp. (Don't be a snob and talk about voltage drop and impedance rise, you know what I'm saying.) I think he'll be mad and feel like he just wasted money on paying for a big amp.

And matt about 99% being burned off as wasted heat, already know that, but we all deal with it and there is no way around it.

I guess what I'm pointing at is at some point you hit a ceiling or performance wall. Basically, diminishing returns. Design is just as important as application and power. These days it's trendy to just throw lots of power at something without any forethought because people have seen it on youtube.

Now everybody thinks they're SPL monsters :( A lot more goes into those setups than just a big ass amp. Real competitors should get recognition for that. They're def. not idiots after looking through accomplishments.

So...again, getting back to what the Op wants/needs. I highly doubt 2kw vs. 1.5kw is gonna make/break his install...so why even be concerned about .2V? And why is .2V even brought up? Majority of people don't even realize anything is going on with their setup until it exceeds 20% distortion!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT

I guess what I'm pointing at is at some point you hit a ceiling or performance wall. Basically, diminishing returns. Design is just as important as application and power. These days it's trendy to just throw lots of power at something without any forethought because people have seen it on youtube.

Now everybody thinks they're SPL monsters :(

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Of course install matters a ton. But let's put it this way, music or burp, I have my amp set so I know exactly where it'll clip. Let's say under all scenarios it's at volume 25. From volume 22 to 23, 23 to 24, 24 to 25, it IS noticeably louder to the ear. I paid for my big amp, I'm using what I paid for and I'd say you goons feel the same way but just want to argue. FACT is, if he wants to use what he paid for, he's going to, and he'll need (I'm on team XS Power) the biggest XS he can fit under the hood, then a single D3100 in the back. If he's still having some voltage drop, he needs to look into around a 200A alt. These steps could go vice versa.

I've dealt with high powered amp, your 600w amp (isn't that what someone else said?) is no where close to the power of a 2600w amp so you just have no clue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AllenH427

LOL we can get picky, let's just say music, but a song like No Hands- 4 different frequency will be sure to keep nominal impedance fluctuating, and constant bass.

And 1800, doubled volume to the ear is tremendous, maybe you've never jumped from a 140 car to a 150 car.. or even a 150 to a 160. Are you trying to tell the OP that he should only pull 1000 watts out of his 2600 watt amp. (Don't be a snob and talk about voltage drop and impedance rise, you know what I'm saying.) I think he'll be mad and feel like he just wasted money on paying for a big amp.

And matt about 99% being burned off as wasted heat, already know that, but we all deal with it and there is no way around it.

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I'm trying to explain that there's more efficient ways to achieve his goals. If we start going down the road of power = deebeez you're suddenly going from 2kw to 8kw just to gain 6 decibels. That's getting out of control for the average consumer who wants it put in and forgotten about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT

So...again, getting back to what the Op wants/needs. I highly doubt 2kw vs. 1.5kw is gonna make/break his install...so why even be concerned about .2V? And why is .2V even brought up? Majority of people don't even realize anything is going on with their setup until it exceeds 20% distortion!

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I have done this, I have played music on just 2 batteries, car on and rpms around 2000 RPMs, if I remember correctly, the difference was around .4V vs all 3 batteries. That extra .4V was with just one extra battery on music. The difference is a single battle on a small 120A alt for a 2600 will put him into the 10V range, do you know what happens then?

you have a cookout.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AllenH427

I have done this, I have played music on just 2 batteries, car on and rpms around 2000 RPMs, if I remember correctly, the difference was around .4V vs all 3 batteries. That extra .4V was with just one extra battery on music. The difference is a single battle on a small 120A alt for a 2600 will put him into the 10V range, do you know what happens then?

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Why are we going back down this road again? A well thought out install with 2.6kw of power should still be well above charging state for the battery with music.

I know you guys are all about your hobby and I am too but how many times have you heard me shove raw drivers and active crossovers down everybody's throat?

How many times have you turned on the news and heard about a class action suit against batteries, amplifiers, or whoever else because their car caught fire going down the road because they used an auto zone battery with their jigawatts setup?

How often does a fuse blow well before these fires start? You can't argue worst case/what if scenarios as if it's academic. It's not.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/l...g?t=1242053901

Quote:

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Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT

Why are we going back down this road again? A well thought out install with 2.6kw of power should still be well above charging state for the battery with music.

I know you guys are all about your hobby and I am too but how many times have you heard me shove raw drivers and active crossovers down everybody's throat?

How many times have you turned on the news and heard about a class action suit against batteries, amplifiers, or whoever else because their car caught fire going down the road because they used an auto zone battery with their jigawatts setup?

How often does a fuse blow well before these fires start? You can't argue worst case/what if scenarios as if it's academic. It's not.

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I see what you're saying now, we've just had one misunderstanding.
It appears you are telling him that yes it's possible to run the 2600w amp on a nice battery under the hood (XS Power,) and a 120A. Of course it is, but he will have to watch his voltage drop to make sure he doesn't get too low, and I have done real world testing that the lower the voltage the more prone to clipping.
What I'm saying is just from my experience from day one.. you buy a 200w amp, you bet you want to use it to it's full potential. He buys a 2600w amp, he's probably going to want to use it to his full potential, therefore he will need electrical upgrades. I was running stock electrical with a 1200w amp and was dipping to the early 12.0V range... safe yes, but a 2600w amp is a big step up.

I have a pretty big hunch that majority of people stepping into this hobby are prone to higher failure rates due to two distinct issues.

1) Terrible grounds. Just because metal is touching metal doesn't make it efficient. The alternator can only push out what a ground can handle. Huge voltage drops will take place with poor grounds.

2) Volume knobs..err...Gain. I meant gain :) Even a lot of "pro" audio shops eff it up *forehead slap*


Fundamentally speaking, if you can get those two things right and you've purchased quality equipment you should have a reliable system so long as you touch up those connections every now and then.

So with that...yes...some kinda caddywhompas whatever person who's just looking for bling will typically catch fire going down the road. But they usually have a lot of other things happening at the same time :)

Edit: I completely understand the forewarning and I'm glad the rest of the members can see the two distinct approaches. FYI, I've used sundown amps, cadence, PPI, a/d/s/, memphis, alpine, blah blah blah. I go through a lot just because I like to play. I'm currently enjoying my ZED Leviathan. Thinking about getting the Kronos to match it for a 3-way active idea. The most internal fusing(through the amp) I've had is ~250. in my driver seat I've measured as mid 130's c weighted and 120's a weighted with a couple setups. No idea what it is now. But I like loud and clean. Matt's more of a pro audio driver kinda guy. He prefers concert level at a minimum ;P I like my hearing though

2) Too many times... :D