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10-08-2013
ok, i'm new here so correct me if i'm wrong on any of this...
i'm considering converting to E85 for running a smaller pulley and reliablity. how small could i get away with? how big injectors would i need? what plugs? can i trust ZZP with a tune for it? and most importantly am i wasting my time?
thanks for the advice and patience
10-08-2013
You need to find a way to scan for KR before dropping pulleys. Once you know this, then we can go from there. Typically a pulley drop will require headers. Run copper plugs. Would get a custom tune, not necessarily from ZZP as all cars are different.
Take a look at this thread and then ask if you have more questions-- http://www.grandprixforums.net/showthread.php?t=67580
10-08-2013
If your car is stock I can't say that I've heard of anybody doing an e85 conversion as their first mod. Most everybody gets an intake some exhaust mods first. The stock air box and stock exhaust manifolds/U bend are fairly restrictive. Generally the better your motor can "breathe" the smaller pulley you can run. In just about all cases E85 will allow you to run a smaller pulley than you could run with premium gas though. Most guys go with 60 lb. injectors with e85 but with a mild build you may get away with 42.5's. The plugs will depend on what you do to your motor. Usually a slightly colder plug is needed with smaller pulleys and more boost. As far as ZZP goes they are a big name in the 3800 world and I'm sure they could tune your car. I would seriously doubt that they would have a mail order tune they could send you for e85 that you could just run forever.
One thing to keep in mind if you do convert to e85 is that you need about 1/3 more available fuel at WOT so a high flow fuel pump is needed along with a new fuel filter change or two. Another thing to keep in mind is that most states have three blends of e85... spring/Fall, summer and winter blends. Make sure to get your car tuned with the summer blend. The car will just run a little richer in colds months and won't have a an optimum tune unless you have another tune for the cold months. I see your in Missouri so you have e85 available which his a plus for sure. I don't run my car in the winter so I have no experience with hard cold starts but that can be an issue with e85.
As far as wasting your time it all depends what you want from your car and how much time and money you want to put into it. You mentioned a smaller pulley and reliability so you must want a quicker car you can drive all the time right? From my experience e85 is an awesome fuel for the 3.8 supercharged engine and offers higher horse power compared to premium fuel at a much lower cost and "fights" KR with its cooling properties. it will take some time, money and effort to get the car converted and tuned however. I ordered a ball park e85 tune from Intense based on my mods for my first start up with a full tank of e85. I drove the car with that ball park tune a few hundred miles to Intense/Dyno Motor Sports to get tuned. I dropped from a 3.2 to a 2.8 with zero knock and gained a lot of horse power so it was well worth it. Like another poster mentioned You will want a scan gauge to scan for KR for sure.
Hope that helps a little
10-08-2013
i was afraid a box tune wouldent cut it. long story short i had to replace a faulty PCM and went with one from ZZP as a replacement and i am thoroughly impressed! how would i find somebody near me that could tune for me? i thought about E85 instead of all the bolt ons because of the relative simplicity of it. that and E85 is a healthy dollar cheaper than regular gas. i see alot of turbo guys running E85 to combat detonation and i assume that theres a pretty good relationship between detonation and KR. still a little fuzzy on what KR is but i'm getting there, my understanding is that KR is the computer sensing knock and adjusting timing to combat it. number 1 the car has to be reliable above all else, second is power followed by running cost. i try to build everything i have so that i can always afford to drive it, i also have a 79 vette project that belonged to my dad and a old pickup that was my grandpa's new. i like diversity!
10-08-2013
The only places I know that could tune your car would be intense in central OH and ZZP in western MI.
10-08-2013
Yeah, corn fuel is cheaper, but you will burn way way more of it, so really in the end depending on your driving you will pay the same amount. Might aswell stick with 91+ if you arent going to mod very much. Plus you'll want bigger injectors, like 60's, meh on lame 42.5's like lucas's.
10-08-2013
price of ethanol aside would it be worth it to support the pulley swap? ubend delete seems pretty straight foward, theres even a local guy here selling ZZP's stainless headers and downpipe for `500$ i could see that happening in the future. i could also see rocker arm swaps. i really want to keep it as stock looking as possible, and i dont want to get inside the motor on this car. and thanks again for all the paitence and advice
10-08-2013
they are both exactly 10 and a half hours awayOriginally Posted by tms8582
10-08-2013
well just dont try and drive to both you will be sore
Originally Posted by Bio248
Originally Posted by Kilroy
10-09-2013
im sure there is a tuner closer to you, I just don't know who they are. Im sure if you look hard and search the net you can find someone. You will get a couple miles to the gallon less with e85 so its more of a performance gain thing than a savings on fuel.
10-16-2013
I would just go 60lb injectors there pretty much same price as 42.5 then get headers and a 3.5 pulley and run a **** load of timing
04-15-2015
Old thread but here's a reply... Currently I am running headers, 104 AL copper plugs, e85, 42.5 injectors, gen v blower, 3.5 mps and I am able to run 21* timing no kr with a 10.8 AFR no problem I just ordered a 3.3 MPS pulley so I can reduce timing a tad and get more boost. But I am assuming he is running a gen 3 blower so even a 3.3 mps would be safe with headers but the key here is finding you a tuner close by if you haven't and if you are still in the 3800 world if not this reply may be useful for any other thoughts or pulley and e85 vs tune.
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