3.5 to 3.4 = NOT GOOD

[fri3dchick3n]

Ok so I recently installed a Stage 2 Snow Performance Boost Cooler on my 99 Grand Prix GTP and dropped the pulley size to a 3.4. I got my car retuned for it and my car seems to be slower... Lol. I talked to my tuner and he said that he saw a spike of 8* of KR right away and overall REDUCED my Timing Advance and payed more attention to something he called throttle enrichment? I was thinking for sure I would be able to run a little more boost(3.4) and a little more Timing with the meth kit but I guess my car cannot handle the 3.4 just yet. I am running a 41 Methonal 59 Distilled Water mix for my spray.

My question is what would cause such a high spike of KR? On my 3.5 The most I saw at WOT was 3.5 right on the downshift but the car performed just fine so I considered it as phantom knock.
What should I try/check to try to solve this KR issue thats causing my tune to be worthless?

Here is a video of me versus an Evo 9. He is stock in this video. This is with my 3.5
Evo 9 GSR vs Grand Prix GTP - YouTube

And now all the evo has done to is so far are drop in air filter and underhood shifter bushings.
Now with my 3.4 + METH.

Heres from 35 MPH. 20130429_202204_zpsf5648e5e.mp4 Video by fri3dchick3n | Photobucket

Here is from 25 MPH. 20130429_201721_zps91d858cf.mp4 Video by fri3dchick3n | Photobucket












Yes he walked me.

[Jevik]

From what I've read, it's better to run 18* of timing and a larger pulley than to run with a lot lower timing advance on a smaller pulley. The advance gives more power. And it's probably about 0.5psi difference between the two. I would run the 3.5.

[fri3dchick3n]

Yea, I am running about 9* at WOT according to my Aeroforce. Which is nothing. Ive talked to my tuner and are going to retune the car with the 3.5 back on there and I am also going to replace my engine mount since it is shot to help reduce those KR numbers, false or not. It still needs to be replaced.

[SlowNA06]

9*? Isn't stock advance something like 16*?

[Bio248]

9*? Isn't stock advance something like 16*?

yes.


my bet is that your tune is bogus. you should easily be able to run the 3.4 with the meth if you can run the 3.5....they are basically the same pulley.

[coolone]

Almost exactly the same, yes... And agree, tune is an issue.

You had 3.5* of knock with the meth?

Plus why didn't tuner save what was on the PCM before flashing anything new? Tell him/her to put back what was there before, I'm sure it'll work just fine as before, but you'll need a new tuner!!! Lol...

[99prixgt]

9* wot?!? haha wut...holy egt's, that's bogus. you gotta get at least 16*, running the smallest pulley you can.

throttle enrichment isn't really the table you should be concerned with, the proper way is to richen/lean out is using the maf table and making small changes. Throttle enrichment is almost what you would use to make a tiny, tiny adjustment, its not the proper way to dial in a car

edit: i don't even use throttle enrichment, i leave that table alone. Also what tuner are you using? if its a dhp powertuner i can guarantee your stock tables are in there.

[99prixgt]

do you have a wideband? Its almost guessing work doing it without it. Don't let him max out your injectors too

[darkhorizon]

you can get KR from too much fuel, and water injection....

[fri3dchick3n]

He said he leaned it out to 11.9. And yes I had 3.5* of KR with meth on a 3.5 untuned for it. On the down shifts though for about a second and it would disappear quickly.

He's using a brand new HP TUNER, and has owned a highly modified GTP previously. So thats why I chose him to tuned : /

Oh and no wideband.

And I have an extra PCM chillin at home if it would better.

[SlowNA06]

He said he leaned it out to 11.9.

no wideband.

[dsmuts]

With no wb you don't know what your afr is so you have no way of telling what he leaned it out to.

[BillBoost37]

How much torque management is still active in the tune? Most often a small spike of KR at a downshift is torque management. GM has TM inducing KR as a method of reducing timing/power during the shift.

There's no such thing as phantom or false KR. KR is either a mechanical, electrical or tuning issue that should be fixed.

[fri3dchick3n]

I'm sure that the torque management has not been touched. Should it be disabled completely?

I guess I was feeling brave trying to get a meth tune with no WB aye.

Time to look into that if I want a good tune. Hopefully won't run me too much

[DanPrixGTP]

I'm sure that the torque management has not been touched. Should it be disabled completely?

I guess I was feeling brave trying to get a meth tune with no WB aye.

Time to look into that if I want a good tune. Hopefully won't run me too much

My tune has no TM at all, I don't think.

An AEM Wideband on Ebay costs like $160. Not to bad.

[darkhorizon]

How much torque management is still active in the tune? Most often a small spike of KR at a downshift is torque management. GM has TM inducing KR as a method of reducing timing/power during the shift.

There's no such thing as phantom or false KR. KR is either a mechanical, electrical or tuning issue that should be fixed.

torque management never shows as KR. Its a fact.

Water/meth injection will reduce power in every case unless you add tons of timing or boost.

[coolone]

I'm sure that the torque management has not been touched. Should it be disabled completely?

I guess I was feeling brave trying to get a meth tune with no WB aye.

Time to look into that if I want a good tune. Hopefully won't run me too much

Cheap/Fast/Reliable

You can only have two at any one time... Chose wisely! Lol
Seems you're already trying to skip certain steps, good luck!
: )

[fri3dchick3n]

Not trying to skip steps. Just didn't know I absolutely needed it for a tune. Now I know and an AEM Wideband is on the way.

[99prixgt]

a wideband gives away all secrets

[darkhorizon]

when doing overly complicated things with fueling, a wideband is the only way to go. Other than that, you can run no wideband on a non meth injected setup pretty easy.