Quote Originally Posted by darkhorizon View Post
You do know that I had a 3.4 pulley and a tuner EIGHT years ago right? You were probably not even old enough to drive a lawnmower.

I have been doing this 3800 "thing" long enough to say what I say with knowledge and experience behind it.
Now... Let's keep in mind, I spoke about what you said, not about you other than to say I RESPECTFULLY disagreed. For your information I started driving over 35 years ago Internet smart guy! My first car was a 73' Pontiac Grand Am that I bought used, worked the engine, cammed and more and raced it too. Whatever... I've been out of the game for a long time, way before everything was controlled by a damned PCM, lol...

Eight years ago, lol... Doesn't mean anything to me, nor does any mumbo jumbo about your experience, I've already allowed for that. Simple formular is... More air in = more air out! Thank you very much...

Quote Originally Posted by darkhorizon View Post
headers offer the least bang per buck of any mod, even at these chinabay prices. They are a pain in the ass to keep from leaking if you can even pull it off, and you might pick up .1 and a mph in the quarter with extensive mods... I have never seen a 3.4 pulley car go faster with them.
see below...

Quote Originally Posted by GTPpower View Post
Headers are pointless on a bolt-on car. I'm not sure why they are pushed so hard around here for 3.4 to stock pulley cars. At that level, they aren't worth the maintence headache that they cause.
hmmmm... All exhaust systems I'm aware of bolt on... Not sure what you mean by that? Bolt on Mod? Where is AROUND HERE exactly? I installed my Pacesetters and was not half the horror made out to be here online, no leaks either. Only problems I've had we're introduced by my thick head. Other than that, I've not known headers installed correctly to require any maintenance.

Fact is... Most of us who decide to mod, or start pushing these engines past the STOCK set up, get the bug. Many start small, then mod more, then even more and finally trying to squeeze every drop of speed or HP, go all out. I always suggest headers as it eliminates one of those steps early on. And quite frankly, only those who get the cheap headers fit the mold of what you say. There are some who follow smart exhaust doctrine with headers, meaning primary sizing, material (S/S or Ceramic) for proper heat retention, etc., which clearly is an advantage over the stock system, the back pressure b/s has been well discussed so not even worth it here. These 3800 engines are well known that the STOCK exhaust is very restrictive and just a bad design...

Bottom line is I will stick to my guns here as I've never seen a serious race car, street or track without them(headers), regardless of engine, platform...

Nuff said!
: )