Thread: What to do? Block, crank and heads

Now that I have a spare block, crank and heads I need some input on how to plan out what to do. Now, that said, Im not going insane on this, Im staying supercharged and I'll be using forged pistons. I wanted to do something other than Diamond pistons as I really was not crazy about them and their price, but after speaking with a man at BGPM that is much wiser about such things than I, I will probably be using Diamond Pistons, uncoated.

What I need now is input on what to do to the block, crank and so forth.

Is there anything special that needs to be done to the block? Im not overboring the cylinder, I'll stay stock size other than what needs to be done to accomodate the forged pistons.

I want to especially have anything done that will ensure assembly goes smoothly. I realize there is the human factor but anything I can have done to ensure everything is true and correct I want to do.

So I need some input from everyone that has experience with all this. Particularly with regards to anything that can be done to help with longevity and durability. Are there any shortcomings in the heads and block that I can deal with now?

Anyway, thanks in advance for any input and help. If I have not given enough info, please ask and I'll answer as best I can.

The only reason I want diamond pistons is to give me a little durability and margin against KR. Of course, the best way to deal with that is to tune it out and have the mods to support my goals, but I still would like some cushion, otherwise I would stay with stock pistons.

How so?

I would find that really odd, not doubting you, just saying it would be odd since they both selll diamond pistons I believe. Intense does I know for sure, not 100% on ZZP.

I had diamond pistons never had a problem with them.
Ran constant 2.6" pulley on em but i also watched A/F like a hawk3

I had it all done to my block will i do it again. NO
The end of my car ended up being a snapped crank.

I had a bored .20 over, balanced crank, diamond pistons, double roller, Head work that matched Intense S3 hears and then some, over sized valves, IS3 cam, Clevite 77 Bearings, and total seal rings.

IF your not gonna go all out, i would keep block stock, just replace bearings and seals, and TC tensioner.

Before i went all out i had basics, 3.25, tog headers, 1.9 rockers later upgraded to a VS cam, intake, exhause and PCM. When i threw the vs cam in i dropped to a 3.0 dailey and a 2.9" fun at that time i had 2-3kr w/ 2.9"

After i talked to many other people at the time stated our cranks are better left alone.
at the time i was making damn near 400whp and just hit 500wtq.

I also hear from some of the old top togs that had to pave the road for us, Chris green, ed, at the time stated stock blocks is what they ran doing 300+whp. Just watch kr // Af and it will hold out. I been out the game for so long i dont know to do anymore.

Originally Posted by Street Wolf

I'd sell them too. People buy them, therefor they make money.

That kind of business practice really bothers me. There is no way in HADES I could sell the stuff I do if I did not use them and believe in their effectiveness.

Well anyway, back on topic.

Originally Posted by Toofastgs

I had diamond pistons never had a problem with them.
Ran constant 2.6" pulley on em but i also watched A/F like a hawk3

I had it all done to my block will i do it again. NO
The end of my car ended up being a snapped crank.

I had a bored .20 over, balanced crank, diamond pistons, double roller, Head work that matched Intense S3 hears and then some, over sized valves, IS3 cam, Clevite 77 Bearings, and total seal rings.

IF your not gonna go all out, i would keep block stock, just replace bearings and seals, and TC tensioner.

Before i went all out i had basics, 3.25, tog headers, 1.9 rockers later upgraded to a VS cam, intake, exhause and PCM. When i threw the vs cam in i dropped to a 3.0 dailey and a 2.9" fun at that time i had 2-3kr w/ 2.9"

After i talked to many other people at the time stated our cranks are better left alone.
at the time i was making damn near 400whp and just hit 500wtq.

I also hear from some of the old top togs that had to pave the road for us, Chris green, ed, at the time stated stock blocks is what they ran doing 300+whp. Just watch kr // Af and it will hold out. I been out the game for so long i dont know to do anymore.

I planned on having the crank polished, but I wasnt so sure about balanced since Im not all that crazy about pulling the balance shaft and having to plug up the oiling there. Though, building up a block I would be more inclined to run an extremely mild cam, nothing crazy but I dont really care if I run a stock cam or a mild one.

Most of my work is going to be focused on the heads and doing whatever I can to ensure the motor can take a bit of abuse. Admittedly, however, I am in uncharted territory here so while Im in this far I want to take care of any shortcomings and make sure that everything will hold up to some very spirited driving and track duty.

Depending on your goals....

I would for sure hone the cylinders for the new rings regardless, remove all the bearings (including the cam bearings) and have it hot tanked afterwards.

Over boring the cylinders is a waste of money for how much HP you get honestly. You could spend the same amount else where for more gains.

When you reassemble, make sure you set the crank end play before you torque the main caps. many forget...engine throws copper from the thrust bearing the crank walks against.

I have Diamond pistons, and never a problem with them. (coated too)
Make sure you FIND THE F on the tops of them, we have an off set pin, and the F on the end of the piston means front, so F end towards front of motor (belt end).

Make sure you set your ring gap accordingly. File to fit. Need help, let me know easy to do. Better to just call me instead of writing a book. LOL

Balance shaft removal...might as well. Since the motor is out, you can access the oil feed hold behind the rear engine cover and tap and plug it. Or...wait for my next product to be released...and I'll let ya test it.

I would have the entire rotating assembly professionally balanced 50%. This will insure that if and when this motor hits high RPM's it spins as smooth as possible, and extends the life of your bearings through out from any vibration. Plus, makes your balancer last longer too.

Other than that...keep things clean when you install/build and be sure to seal and lube the right bolts, studs and certain areas to avoid leaks. I recommend a big clear trash bag that something was shipped in. I got my "engine blanket" from ED a loooooooooong tie ago, and use it a lot on builds. Holds everything from a litle 4 cylinder to a V8 when its on the stand.

~F~

Crank end play. That will be something I need to read up on.

All the above, i'd get the crank balanced too. Although I wouldn't polish the crank if I didn't have too. I've heard of too many problems with polished cranks on the 3800 platform, never heard for a stock crank failure yet.

Also, i'd improve the oiling on the bottom end. Some guy on clubgp had some extensive details about this. I forget his screen name. He's the guy that was going to do the S1/S2 hybrid... the guy with the twin engined Cutlass. The bottom end could use bigger oiling passages. Especially if you plan on spinning some RPMs, it wouldn't be a bad idea to look into this as well.

While Ive never heard of any issue with the crank polished or otherwise, I'll look into that. I could see that being a problem if what little material removed was not taken into account for the bearings. The guy you are referring to is turbocharged406sbc. I have not seen him around these parts for a very long time and I was hoping to get some input from him as well.

Cranks can be resurfaced, polished, and ground.

I only go as far as resurfacing/polishing where the bearings ride.

When people grind the cranks down, so they can run a larger bearing, this is when you see problems and failures. The ONLY reason to grind a crank is if you had one spin and the crank surface is damaged beyond repair and you have to remove material and "start over" so to say.

Not all shops can do this correctly, especially on one of our "mild steel" cranks. Takes the right tools, and knowhow to pull it off, and even then...you can do everything right, but the quality of the crank will bite you in the ass sometimes.

I feel, in my opinion, if you have to grind on a crank for what ever reason on our cars, scrap it/**** can it, and get you a new/lower mileage crank to use and run that.

~F~

Personal preference I guess.

Not worth the risk of it failing because the quality of the cranks makes them not very machinable.

Say the crank is fine, and if it did spin a bearing, but the motor was shut off in time before major damage was done to the crank, then it could be reused no problem. When it comes to regrinding for use of over sized bearings...I would question reusing it since cranks are very easy to come by, plus you would be saving machining costs by going to a different crank.

I had a few broken crank pictures from our motors saved on my old computer, but when it crashed, I lost them. Nobody ever did any follow up on what happened be it a piston, rod or indeed the crank. All I know is it left a big freaking hole in the side of the block and pan when it went. Few things were there, such as some had machining done on the crank at the time of the build. As to what, or how extensive...never knew or heard.

Thats my preference on cranks.

If the cranks were forged...there would not be a question then, as they can take a lot.

~F~

Is this another option for pistons?

ZZ Performance