Thread: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5.

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  1. #1 General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    GT Level Member rmcardle3's Avatar
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    I have wanted to get up to speed on the subject of Gen 5 top swap-ability. So in my reading, the subject of short block health or getting a durable replacement/short block naturally came up. In 8 threads L26 was identified/mentioned as a durable alternative to the L67, for a concurrent Gen 5 (MOD) on 2 occasions. This gave me the idea for a new thread to help me understand why L26 has risen to the occasion, to sit under forced air induction, in the good company of L67 (GTP/Eaton M90 Gen 3), L32 (GTP/Eaton M90 Gen 5) and last (but definitely NOT LEAST) LC2 (GNX/Garret GT35R).

    This thread’s purpose is not to question the wisdom of using the L26 as a foundation for the Generation 5 M90 Supercharger, but to understand “what is going on with the L26 that allows its non-hardened piston's to "rise the occasion"?

    I thought "Forged" & "lower compression ratio” (i.e. 8.5:1) aspects of pistons go together (hand-in-hand) and that these 2 things were inseparable, at least in the context of “3.8/231 & 3800 V6” & GNX, forced induction systems, like L67 & L32.

    Isn't the L26 (I know the arms are substantially improved) using pistons that are still lacking in the “forged /hardened & lower compression ratio” department, at 9.4:1? EVEN WITH "the stronger powdered metal sinter forged connecting rods"? I guess I would have thought that this made the L26 substantially limited in its application to our "forced air induction" applications, here due in part to the "weakest link" theory. This thread’s purpose is not to question the wisdom of using the L26 as a foundation for the Generation 5 M90 Supercharger, but to understand “what is going on with the L26 that allows its non-hardened piston's to "rise the occasion"? Don’t mean to “pick nits” but is there a substantial difference in GTP piston application and GNX piston application?

    I guess the “nagging” question that really wears at me is this:

    “Is there a substantial difference in “piston hardness (i.e. short-block durability)” one way or the other, between the 1987 GNX (GM Production Turbo w/LC2) and my 2000 GTP (GM Production Supercharged w/L67)?

    All thoughts and comments are welcomed, positive (and negative).
    Last edited by rmcardle3; 10-17-2010 at 10:58 PM.
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  2. #2 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    The mod from over yonder TheOtherNick's Avatar
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    If there is no spark knock pretty much any piston can be used in forced induction.
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  3. #3 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    GT Level Member rmcardle3's Avatar
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    Oh ok.
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  4. #4 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    The Blue One blueguy's Avatar
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    Like stated...ZZP took a stock L67 to IIRC, 700+ TT FWHP. It's all in the tuning capabilities.
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  5. #5 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    The mod from over yonder TheOtherNick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluegtp91 View Post
    Like stated...ZZP took a stock L67 to IIRC, 700+ TT FWHP. It's all in the tuning capabilities.
    I never thought you would complement zzp's tuning.
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  6. #6 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
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    When the sake of the HP/speed race is at stake... I dont think they're going to do a half ass tune.
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  7. #7 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    The Blue One blueguy's Avatar
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    Mail Order PCM's from them are crap.

    Dyno tuning however...you really can't go wrong there unless your an idiot.
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  8. #8 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    club of used to own a gp 99prixgt's Avatar
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    higher compression L36/26 = more power with less boost

    also need more breathing mods to have a healthy high compression m90 build
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  9. #9 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    The Blue One blueguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99prixgt View Post
    higher compression L36/26 = more power with less boost

    also need more breathing mods to have a healthy high compression m90 build
    SMART POSTZ

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  10. #10 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
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    nvm
    Last edited by 00gpgtp; 10-26-2010 at 10:45 PM.
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  11. #11 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
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    np.
    Last edited by rmcardle3; 10-26-2010 at 11:13 PM.
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  12. #12 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    GTP Level Member 01gpgt01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluegtp91 View Post
    Like stated...ZZP took a stock L67 to IIRC, 700+ TT FWHP. It's all in the tuning capabilities.

    Pretty positive it was a l36 block
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  13. #13 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    DUI BABY Bio248's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01gpgt01 View Post
    Pretty positive it was a l36 block
    they switched back to the l67 block for the high whp and 1/4 times.
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  14. #14 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    Bastard Reptile's Avatar
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    You'd be surprised what a difference in CR makes when using a GenV. It's almost a nightmare on a 3.4 setup to keep the knock at bay. Even with a big cam and IS3 heads.
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  15. #15 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    The Blue One blueguy's Avatar
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    I like my low compression...it's more forgivable and is perfect for mucho boosto. I don't have to worry about having it tuned everytime the weather changes because I'd be knocking...or part throttle knock with a big cam and high compression...which seems to be a big issue on these cars. Talked to Zach about it in Branson last year about it...he hated tuning it. And he was on a GenIII 3.4"

    Quote Originally Posted by 01gpgt01 View Post
    Pretty positive it was a l36 block
    Quote Originally Posted by Bio248 View Post
    they switched back to the l67 block for the high whp and 1/4 times.
    Yup...because the L36 couldn't take what THEY wanted to throw at it.
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  16. #16 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    GXP Level Member darkhorizon's Avatar
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    Nobody ever switched anything... Matt's drag car had a L32 in it for years... it always had it.

    Zoom's twincharged car had a L36 block in it when it ran 10's on blower only, and they left it in there when it went 9's on the twincharge setup.

    Alot of the "L26" blocks that people have been using are identical to L36 motors, because GM had alot of L36 stock left over (and a few manufacturing problems) they had to use in the 04's.
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  17. #17 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    Donating Users 16MustangVet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reptile View Post
    You'd be surprised what a difference in CR makes when using a GenV. It's almost a nightmare on a 3.4 setup to keep the knock at bay. Even with a big cam and IS3 heads.
    Dont really get what your saying here, Ive got a gen5 2nd L67 engine in the garage and will have an IS3 cam shortly. Why would this be hard to tune and reccomend starting with a 3.4 pulley on the Gen5? No IC either or meth. Looking to have Gen5, headers, IS3 cam, ported heads 130lb springs, E85, HPTuners, 65 lbs injectors. All said and done. Heads Im looking at getting should be at least = to or better than the IS3 heads their Mizly motorsports P/P with TI retainers oversized valves and 130lb springs. If I plan on building this with the 2nd L67 thats in the garage would be better to find a different short block?
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  18. #18 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    GT Level Member rmcardle3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkhorizon View Post
    Nobody ever switched anything... Matt's drag car had a L32 in it for years... it always had it.

    Zoom's twincharged car had a L36 block in it when it ran 10's on blower only, and they left it in there when it went 9's on the twincharge setup.

    Alot of the "L26" blocks that people have been using are identical to L36 motors, because GM had alot of L36 stock left over (and a few manufacturing problems) they had to use in the 04's.
    Cool

    Edited
    Last edited by rmcardle3; 10-30-2010 at 04:23 AM.
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  19. #19 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
    Bastard Reptile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02GrandPrixIraqVet View Post
    Dont really get what your saying here, Ive got a gen5 2nd L67 engine in the garage and will have an IS3 cam shortly. Why would this be hard to tune and reccomend starting with a 3.4 pulley on the Gen5? No IC either or meth. Looking to have Gen5, headers, IS3 cam, ported heads 130lb springs, E85, HPTuners, 65 lbs injectors. All said and done. Heads Im looking at getting should be at least = to or better than the IS3 heads their Mizly motorsports P/P with TI retainers oversized valves and 130lb springs. If I plan on building this with the 2nd L67 thats in the garage would be better to find a different short block?
    Well I was speaking about the L26 block, which is what I have. Mine has been extremely touchy and has caused me to spend hours and hours working on my timing tables to get comfortable with driving it daily and being able to stab the throttle. I worked out all of the WOT issues, it's just the part throttle hills and valleys that drives me crazy.

    One of the reasons I don't care to do mail order top swap tunes.
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  20. #20 Re: General durability question about the L26 vs L67 for Gen 5. 
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    My car is still like that.... Stabbing means KR.

    Full throttle + downshift = KR

    Have to roll for no KR
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