New to me GTP..... not so good.

[gtp0525]

My disclaimer. I am not some mechanical moron but I got the shaft on the car I bought( and yes I take responsibility for it). Private sale, low mile 02 GTP. Car ran flawlessly, is really clean and has about 69000 miles on it. After 2 days of ownership..... I don't know what I have left. There is the usual oil now floating in the coolant tank and the rad hoses are sweating it. The PO did a good job of cleaning things as I am aware of the 3.8's issues but also was less thurough than I should have been. I asked about previous history and was told it had the intake gaskets done in more recent times. Thought great, that's what I like to hear...... yeah. The PO knew exactly what the issues were and frauded by hiding it..... however there is no reprucussions I can take as legal fees for a buyer beware case waste my time. That's one thing.

The other is the loud ticking noise it now makes while running. It sounds more like a top end based noise than a rod bearing. Realistically it sounds like an exhaust leak, and follows all engine rpm. I really hope the shortblock is okay.... but don't know yet. The oil is still clean and doesn't seem to have anything coolant wise in it. I haven't drained anything as the car is sitting in the parking lot of my girlfriends condo. I want to try and have this thing towed to my acreage tomorrow. I don't have the time to do any real work to it as I want it running ASAP and I work a job that puts me away from home about 25 days of the month.

I am guessing its the upper intake gaskets as far as the coolant problem but the ticking puzzles me a bit. As the oil seems clean enough ( well its used oil but not water contaminted) I don't see why it would run great and then have major mechanical failure. I can't see it hydrolocking but the car was started with the command start so I wasn't there for startup. Still runs smooth just noisy. About an hour prior the car was running great and had no issues. Power is good and ran as I would expect. Now it's fubared for now.

I am planning on a GM crate L67 unless you guys have a better idea if mine is done. I don't really want to mess around with some overpriced wrecking yard disaster and my previous luck in that respect has just led me to buy new parts.

What do you guys think?

P.S. Hi, I'm new here and this really was not the first post I wanted but it's the way it goes.

And I bought this as it was supposed to helping my girlfriend upgrade from her coolant and oil eating blown head gasket POS rusty 3.8 powered 94 Taurus. Good job dip$hit for me....... This is my girls account if some are wondering and I will use it for now until I sort this car out.

[TorqueAutoMotiv]

my buddys was making a lifter noise her flushed the engine with engine flush/deisel at oil change time and it fixed it dont know if thats your issue though as far as the oil in the coolant tank does the car still run dexcool(orangecoolant)
it gets nasty when contaminants get in it

id have a compression test done and a radiator flush if comp test is ok
check for oil/coolant in the valley between the blower/valve cover

and do a oil/engine flush with seafoam 1/2 can or that engine flush stuff and see if that doesnt help the ticking noise also spay some soapy water by the egr tube on the back manifold thats a spot that likes to leak exhaust

im sure others will chime in but just some thoughts

[machinegunsquid]

You sound about like me, I bought my car, it ran great, and on the way home I blew the motor. Chipped a piston (totally stock car) and ended up snapping the connecting rod.

I wouldnt go for a crate L67, just find a low mile used L67 and swap it if you have the know-how, it's fairly simple really.

As for the ticking, how fast/loud is it happening?? I was concerned about mine, and after about 2 hours of listening to it with stethoscopes, I found out it was a tensioner pulley and the AC compressor going out. You might check the pulleys, since it goes with RPM, just an easy check.

Drain the oil, and make sure you have no coolant in it, it's easy to do, and will tell you for absolute sure if there's a coolant leak into the oil.

[gtp0525]

my buddys was making a lifter noise her flushed the engine with engine flush/deisel at oil change time and it fixed it dont know if thats your issue though as far as the oil in the coolant tank does the car still run dexcool(orangecoolant)
it gets nasty when contaminants get in it

id have a compression test done and a radiator flush if comp test is ok
check for oil/coolant in the valley between the blower/valve cover

and do a oil/engine flush with seafoam 1/2 can or that engine flush stuff and see if that doesnt help the ticking noise also spay some soapy water by the egr tube on the back manifold thats a spot that likes to leak exhaust

im sure others will chime in but just some thoughts

Nope on the Dexcool, already has green antifreeze in it, from probably when I thought the intake gaskets were done.

I can compression test it tomorrow myself if I get it and see what I have. I planned on tearing off the shroud and checking around. An EGR pipe leak would be awesome at the moment. Couple that to just bad intake gaskets and I am a happy camper ( as screwed up as that sounds, I know). I might even just hit that up myself but probably will still farm it out based on time. Coolant flush is 100% mandatory now, but thats the least of my worries. Sometimes a normal job where I was home every night would be nice.

The long weekend kinda screws up me getting much anything done myself because of a lack of parts places.

Thanks.

[gtp0525]

You sound about like me, I bought my car, it ran great, and on the way home I blew the motor. Chipped a piston (totally stock car) and ended up snapping the connecting rod.

I wouldnt go for a crate L67, just find a low mile used L67 and swap it if you have the know-how, it's fairly simple really.

As for the ticking, how fast/loud is it happening?? I was concerned about mine, and after about 2 hours of listening to it with stethoscopes, I found out it was a tensioner pulley and the AC compressor going out. You might check the pulleys, since it goes with RPM, just an easy check.

Drain the oil, and make sure you have no coolant in it, it's easy to do, and will tell you for absolute sure if there's a coolant leak into the oil.

I have had enough low mile used garbage in my life I won't do it again. That and wrecking yards are retarded and charge enough I wonder why people don't just always buy new. At least I would know what I have. Unless there is a better engine that I can get new? By better I mean a power upgrade. I would love some built 3.8 but I want the car back together in less than a month so I am screwed in that respect.

I was going to rip the accesory belt off too and run it but it sounds internal. The tapping is steady with rpm and it's really fast, like an exhaust leak pointing me to something affected by the valvetrain.

Oil is coming out as soon as I can get it to my house.

Wanted to do the usual mods like a pulley, tune, exhaust, and whatnot but this is my girlfriends ride and we live 50 miles apart. Not much point.... I would rather play with the LT1 in my 9C1 for now.

P.S. I am the boyfriend to my girl who started this account. Until I have this car sorted out, I have taken it over from her for now.

Thanks for the suggestions so far guys

[machinegunsquid]

Well, lots of people have used old L67s in their cars, like mine, but it is up to you. Hopefully it isn't anything major though. When I got my engine all back together my lifters were loud as hell, until I pulled them and cleaned them. It could also be a chattery rocker, but that typically goes away with rpm... Your best bet is to get somthing to listen with (long screwdriver works great) and poke around. Try to eliminate as much as you can when you get the chance, and let is know. Good luck

[gtp0525]

I will let you guys know as soon as I know something with it. Like I said, wreckers here are retarded. I can say that because I buy stuff at the same closed to the public insurance salvage auctions they do. I would really hard pressed to be able buy anything short of a complete one and am probably looking at $2500 minimum or more for that. If need be I will ask, but I have dealt with most of the major yards here for Chevy truck parts and they are utterly ridiculous. "Oh you want a 6 lug 10 bolt that's open with 3.73 gears..... got one with 80000 miles..... $1700". That's a quote and an example on why I hate junkyards. I bought a bare 4X4 long box 88-98 frame and most yards wanted anywhere from $800-$1000. When I say bare that meant no rear end, no suspesion and no front differential. And did you know the average going price on a used low mile 4.6 Northstar Caddy is anywhere from $6000 and up. Idiots, but moreso to the people that pay those prices. I mean blown or listed as internal failure up here for just the supercharged 3.8 engine still commands a $1000. Thanks but no thanks. GMpartsdirect is about $3136 for a brand new L67 long block.

I am hoping that is not the point of which I need to go. It would be nice if these cars included an oil pressure guage. I can plumb one in I suppose, but they could have at least have done that somewhere from the factory. That and a boost gauge with some increments, lol.

[MrTube]

"Oh you want a 6 lug 10 bolt that's open with 3.73 gears..... got one with 80000 miles..... $1700".

Wow, I had a 8 lug 14 bolt 3.73. Wonder what it would've cost from them, $5K?

We have a few places here who think everything they have is gold plated as well.

In regards to oil pressure, I'm curious. Do these cars use the computer to monitor oil pressure for example , 10psi min at 1K, 20psi min at 2K, 30 min at 3K. Or is it like the older cars where 10psi minimum regardless of rpm?

[machinegunsquid]

Grand prix don't have a monitoring systm, just a dummy light when you drop to a severely low PSI. It's actually really easy to hook up an electronic oil psi gauge, it literally screws right in, and it's right near where there's a passage in the firewall to run your sending wire. Took me about 30 minutes to do.

Also, I don't see how **** is that expensive...most places you can get a 50k-75k L67 for 400-700 dollars.

[TorqueAutoMotiv]

out here 90k oilpan to the blower for 900 with 3 month warentee

[gtp0525]

Welcome to Alberta Canada. The money capital of the country. That's how. Those numbers I gave you are real world. I don't know what an L67 is worth because I haven't priced one out yet that's running but I don't expect much because I know what a lot of other super common parts cost. It will be more than $400-$700 unless it has 160000 miles on it. I can sell a Vortec 350 with about 100000 miles easily for about $1200. What's that worth in Florida?

Strangely enough my ticking noise now comes and goes as I let the car run. Time to pull belts and eliminate accessory drives. Sounds like an exhaust leak. I am going to dump the oil and see what I have. Intake gaskets are most likely shot, hence the oil in the coolant. I pulled the cover and poked around the intake. Found oil seepage externally but that's about it. Otherwise it looks like a 3.8 that has never really been washed. There was a small amount of coolant residue under the oil cap but very little. The oil is not milky and once I dump it I will see how bad it really looks. On the stick its dirty oil, but not water contaminated dirty looking oil. That's all I know now but in an hours time I may know more. Thanks.

[gtp0525]

Hmm. Well I am not liking this too much. The oil filter has a bunch of sludge in the bottom of it. I am not seeing the distinct sheen of metal in the oil though either. The oil in the pan was dirty but that's about expected. The PO was probably just following the oil life monitor. Had a Delco filter on it which to me says it last saw a GM dealer, but not always. She said she always took it somewhere for service work.

I grabbed a sample to send in for analysis. Get an idea of how screwed up the engine is one way or the other.

Did the old scewdriver trick and it's engine internal. The noise is most noticeable at the rear set of 3 cylinders versus the front. From the underside although still very loud when listening to the pan or the block it's quieter which points me to a lifter, rocker arm or some form of compression or exhaust leak.

I am running out of time to get my other things done before I bugger off back to work tomorrow. I am going to send it into town to a shop and see what they find.

[torq455]

i wonder if the dexglue mixed with the oil. it's really gross coming out of the crankcase.

[gtp0525]

i wonder if the dexglue mixed with the oil. it's really gross coming out of the crankcase.

Could have at one point or another I suppose. The engine has green stuff in it and it doesn't look overly new. Mind you enough oil puking into it probably does that.

I don't know what happened to it one way or another but it's not good either way.

[TorqueAutoMotiv]

compression test and go from there if oil is leaking into the coolant comp test should find the weak spot and as said previously engine flush should help the lifter noise if it doesnt the problems more severe

also forgot to mention a leak down test that would help pinpoint the issue better

[gtp0525]

Hey everyone, its the girlfriend.

Thanks for helping out.

Next time (when/if there is a next time) I will know only to buy something lady driven if I get it inspected. The lady put in the ad that it is "Lady driven" and she wasn't getting many calls. She even added in two set of tires and lowered the price by 500. Then my boyfriend got her to lower it by another 500.

I know I am not perfect either. As my 94 Taurus got worse over time, but took care of it when I first got it.

My best vehicle was my 94 GMC Jimmy that was fully loaded with a digital dash. I bought it from a dealership, but still got ****ed with it too, just not as much. I only bought the Taurus after getting in an accident due to a 19 year old girl driving her daddy's car and didn't slow down when she saw a yellow light. 2 more years for me to get that off of my insurance since I am automatically at fault with a left hand turn.

Just before the Grand Prix had issues, I was so happy with the car. I was glad to not get a lemon like the Taurus as 3 months after I got it, the tranny went and I had to get a rebuilt tranny. Wishful thinking I guess or just plan bad luck for me.

Well, this is the newest vehicle I have had, so hopefully it is not too bad. Always liked the Grand AMs, but then saw the Grand Prixs and like them better.

We will let everyone know how it goes.

Thanks again.

[gtp0525]

Thanks for the help guys, we will see how things turn out for the GTP . I wish I had a smile about the car but time will tell what damage is done. The sludge points to neglect and what worries me is what the bearings now look like. I will talk to the shop tomorrow when I bring it to them and stay in the loop on what they find. I would rather just tear it apart myself but time works against me.... Such is life. Thanks for the suggestions and we will see where things go.

Angry BF talking, lol.

[gtp0525]

Well got the car back. Pretty typical and it follows mostly what you guys told me. Of course it needed LIM gaskets as the ones in it were leaking everywhere. Coolant was dumped in the oil as glycol showed up in the analysis. I had about 87 ppm of lead and 36 ppm of copper as well pointing to bearing wear. Most of the rest of the numbers were pretty normal. The engine had a fair amount of sludge in it so the shop flushed it a couple of times. The lifter tick I had is more or less gone away now. I am going to dump the oil again after a couple hundred k, flush it myself with some ATF once more and fill it with synthetic 10W30 or 10W40, either Mobil 1 or Amsoil. That's about all I can do and see how long it lasts. It runs pretty strong so I am hoping it lasts the life of however long I want to keep it. Thanks! And now I think I will stop hijacking my girlfriends account for a while

[gtp0525]

GF here. I got my car back. Yay. It ran great today. I am so happy.