thats because no one thought they had to when the aussie L67's ran them with no issues...then after their crap started breaking it opened their eyes...machine the crank gear...Originally Posted by Bio248
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10-22-2009
thats because no one thought they had to when the aussie L67's ran them with no issues...then after their crap started breaking it opened their eyes...machine the crank gear...
10-22-2009
Sorry for not being real. Forgot there were no timing chain/dampener issues with these cars with cams/upgraded springs. So how often do you pull the timing cover to inspect the dampener? Once a year? I know with my XP setup, after ~10k miles my dampener was cracked all the way through (installed a new stock chain/dampener when I did the cam), for the most part drove it normal, at the track I was shifting at ~6300.
10-22-2009
Well since there is no point to rev a 3800 past 6,000...that is probably why unless you have some stupid high lift cam or a turbo setup...they aren't making any power up there. Mine was fine...and since I chip pistons all the time I am always working on the car...I might go through bottom ends, but have never had any chain or dampener issues...sucks that you do...just saying from mine and everyone else around my area that uses that setup...XP, S1X...stock chain...new dampener...shifting @ 6,000-6,200...hell I even ran it to 6,500 a few times with no issues at all. Reptile has even ran his past that...only issue he ever had was WITH the double roller...so you can go ahead and knock my stock chain setup...don't bother me one bit.
10-22-2009
Actually there are a couple reasons. First reason is that it puts you at a better RPM for 2nd gear. Another is that you don't have to shift to 3rd at the track, you can hold 2nd to ~110. Never had the car dyno'd so I can't say what I was making in the 6k+ range.Well since there is no point to rev a 3800 past 6,000
Think you may have misunderstood me. I don't like the double roller setups any more than the stock setup. Actually I prefer the stock chain setup because a stock chain has never been broken, only the dampener. I'd rather my dampener break and not the chain, just might be able to save the motor at least.so you can go ahead and knock my stock chain setup
I replaced the stock chain I mentioned in my last post with a JP double roller, which stretched quite a bit in only ~1k miles, way too much for my comfort. That motor is still sitting in the garage waiting for a reliable timing chain setup to come out so I can stick it in the Fiero I have.
You never mentioned how often you pull the front cover and inspect your dampener.
10-22-2009
I pull it everytime I toast a motor...so about every 10K or so. Dampener is typical wear...but would still have been usable...I just bought a new one everytime.
10-22-2009
jesus, guys. come on. i know youre all smart enough to run a double roller setup and not break it. i did it and i dont even work on my car until it breaks. i ran that thing hard for 20k miles at least.
10-23-2009
Mine didn't break, the chain was just had excessive slop. Intelligence wasn't going to make my chain not stretch. I'd rather not run a cam and not have to worry about the chain/dampener pretty much ever.i know youre all smart enough to run a double roller setup and not break it.
I only brought all this up because no one mentioned to the OP the risks/downsides of running a cam. Nobody mentioned the chances of him spinning the #1 rod bearing on startup just after the install, either. There are downsides to running a cam, and he should know them before making making the choice to go with it or rockers. Not to mention you can F a LOT of stuff up during the install if you don't know what you're doing.
10-23-2009
The dampener I had pulled after 10k with the XP looked worse (wear-wise, not the crack) than the original pulled from the motor with 140k miles.
10-23-2009
There's no reason why the #1 rod bearing would spin when swapping a cam, unless the motor rejects the cam (uncommon) or the cam install gets biffed.
As for a cam wearing a chain/dampener more than rockers, that's a load of crap. The springs etc are what put the added pressure on the chain. And with either rockers or a cam alone, the springs are probably going to be 105#. 105's aren't 130's and they aren't 150's. Above 105's I could see mentioning it...but we are probably only talking the most common setups here.
OP, it looks to me like these guys are having fun in their modded cars and want to discourage you from doing the same for no reason.
And LOL at blue for only being able to pull off a 15 second pass with the siggy mods.
10-23-2009
LOL @ you Bill for believing me...I'm never taking the car to the track again because everytime I go I break something...so I just threw that in there
10-23-2009
lol seems like the thread got a little off topic... i wasnt asking about the difference between the cam or rockers, but between rollers and modified rockers. i know a cam would be better for power. but i am doing rockers for the ease of install and better driveability for the most part (i know some of the more mild cams wont affect drivability much). thanks for the input though! i appreciate it
10-23-2009
roller rockers are better, but is it worth the gain for the extra cost that youll have to pay? i dont think it is. other people may say different.
10-23-2009
if you can find some used rollers then why not.
my 1.8rr made a big diffrence from what it was. hello topend.
10-24-2009
my rockers woke my top end right up, def worth the money, that rear sets a ***** to get at, not too bad, but not too good. and i like the guy that brought up the downside to cams. im not against them at all, but all sides of the argument should be brought up. having said that its your ride man, do what YOU want with it.
10-24-2009
i kno this sounds stupid but can u get rockers and a cam? I don't really understand that part of the engine soo...they was I do understand is that u have to have one or the other.
10-24-2009
You can run a slightly high ratio rocker with a small cam. I am not sure on the exact specs of what will or wont work tho. If I was going to to rocker and cam I would go stock ratio rollers and a big cam.
10-24-2009
depends on what cam and what rockers. you can run an XP with some 1.7s, but thats almost the most you can roll with.
10-24-2009
Or 1.8's with a VS...you know...
10-24-2009
Well since there is no point to rev a 3800 past 6,000...that is probably why unless you have some stupid high lift cam or a turbo setup...they aren't making any power up there. Mine was fine...and since I chip pistons all the time I am always working on the car...I might go through bottom ends, but have never had any chain or dampener issues...sucks that you do...just saying from mine and everyone else around my area that uses that setup...XP, S1X...stock chain...new dampener...shifting @ 6,000-6,200...hell I even ran it to 6,500 a few times with no issues at all. Reptile has even ran his past that...only issue he ever had was WITH the double roller...so you can go ahead and knock my stock chain setup...don't bother me one bit.
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he's right i would not recommend the jp double nor the double roll master with all the ones i hear breaking... i would use stock chain as well... got a buddy who has well over 50-60k on the stock chain and dampener with the xp cam but he doesn't go past 6200 rpm either....nor does he go wot everytime he drives it.... i'm with blue on this one
10-25-2009
bill boost says hes runnin an s1x with 1.8's.
almost 600 lift on the exhaust.
gotta mill the heads down so the valves can move far enough.
im curious to hear about his set up myself.
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