DNA GTP, My Fantasy Build.

[DnaProdigy]

Update: 08/31/09 Small Additions and spelling corrections, goal list, injectors, fuel pump.

This is my fantasy build. I am convinced that one day i will construct this car.

Rules: There are some aspects of the build that I am decided upon. They are marked with an asterisk *. So basically if you try and sway my mind you will be beating a dead horse. Discussion on these things is acceptable though. I am posting this because I want POSITIVE feedback and input; also I want to put what’s in my head down on paper. Comments hints, tips and more options are greatly appreciated. Price is not an object for the most part, I man I don’t want to spend 20k on a custom mink interior or something weird. This is a work in progress, the first few posts will be updated and dated constantly with new information.

Goals:
Goal 1: I want the car to be able to run a high 12 second ¼.
Goal 2: Decent MPG i am shooting for is 16/26 at the LEAST. I would like more and believe i can get 18/28.
Goal 3: I want to maintain the "originality" of the car. The engine base, S/C induction, transmission.

Note: I am not expecting people to answer all of the questions i have (their are allot). I pose them as a note for myself as well as looking for input. If you see something you like or dislike let me know!

Note2: When i mention ZZP i am only referring where i have seen the item. The only item i want from ZZP for sure are their stainless headers. I will eventually get around to placing "cheapest price" links to all of these items.

Key:
* = An aspect i am decided on
+ = Still looking for more info.
- = Not finalized.


The Car:
Basics:

-Platform : 1999 Grand Prix GTP 2 Door.
*Induction: S/C
+Engine: 3800 modified crate engine. Stll looking into options. (ZZP, Triple Edge).

Under the Hood:
Supercharger
-Supercharger: Gen V. Would a Wipple be better? Iv only heard of them.
-Pulley size: 3.0. ZZP MPS. Maybe i can go smaller.
*Blower:Port & polished, Silencers filled.
*Upgraded coupler

Engine
+Block: No idea. All I hear is I should have a higher compression ratio (9.4). I have seen a few crate engines but I don’t know which Is best.
-Heads: Aluminum heads from ZZP. What do ported heads do? Supporting mods needed? Reduce mpg?
-LIM: Inlet ported. Do outlet ports give any gains?
-Pistons: JE forged Pistons. (zzp)
-Connecting rods: Forged. Where can I get these?
-Radiator: Oversized aluminum radiator (ZZP)
+Cam: Not sure. If they decrease MPG significantly I wont get one.
-Rockers: Nor sure, can you do a cam and rockers?
-Water pump: Upgraded water pump. Does this really do much?
-Pushrods: ?
-Thermostat: 180*
-Springs

Transmission:
-Rebuild myself or use Triple Edge Performance.
+Gear Ratio: 3.29
-Input shaft: Forged/ Upgraded.
-Output shaft: Forged/ Upgraded.
+Differential: GM Racing Torsen differential. ZZP sells this. Not familier with real benefits
+Torque Converter: Pro torque. Not sure what stall yet.
-Transmission pan with drain plug.

Axles: Stage 2 ZZP. Are their better ones?

Electrical:
-Bigger Plug Wires (yellow or red)
-Spark Plugs: Autolite 104’s, .55 gap. coppers ware out quicker, is there a longer lasting option? Are Autolite XP iridium Spark Plugs better?
-Ignition coils: MSD red.
-Alt Rewire

Intercooling
-Intercooler Core: Stage 3 Phenolic from ZZP
+IC Heat exchange: Short stack? Oversized?
-IC reservoir: Nut sure if one is needed or where I get one.
-IC Pump:
-IC pump controller, unnecessary but this is a fantasy build.

Fuel Delivery:
-Fuel Log: ZZP Billet Fuel Log (Chrome).
+Injectors: Bigger ones, investigating what size is best.
-Fuel Pump: Upgraded


-Upgraded/Shorter Dogbones??

-Throttle Body: Northstar (75MM). Or An LS1 TB. Not sure where to get the later.
-Air Filtration: AmsOil Cone filter. (should it be right on the TB if i am going to be running an IC.)


Exhaust:
*Headers: ZZP stainless steel headers.
-Downpipe: Stainless cat’ed downpipe. ZZP
-Catback: Borla.


Suspension:
-Control arms: From Red from ZZP.
-Struts: KYG ABX Adjustable from ZZP.
-Strut tower brace: Red from ZZP
-Sway bar: GMPP front and rear sway bar. From ZZP

Breaks
-Breaks: Baer Eradispeed Big Brake Upgrade. I can’t find other upgrade options.
-Brake lines: Stainless
-5th Break Line: Stainless

Exterior
*Color: Base color will be back, secondary colors will be red and yellow. I will have a custom paint job, the paint job will be designed after a paintball jersey I have. It will not be an exact match but the idea will be the same. I will post the picture of the jersey later.
-Body: SD hood, front air dam, wing. Does anyone know of an aftermarket rear bumper?
-Wheels: Elbrus 104 or Nascar Sonoma. Not sure on size, at what size does performance decrease? I always thought it was bigger than 17.
-Tires: Yokohama ADVAN S4 It.
-Exhaust tips: SLP GTX Stainless. I know there almost impossible to find but I will try, or try to find something similar.
-Headlights and taillights: Stock, maybe I will upgrade to HID’s or some brighter lights. Not sure yet, I don’t want the problems I hear about surrounding HID’s.
*Grille inserts: Stock.*Exterior lighting (Underglow etc): None.
*Door Trim: None.
-Overlays: I will have the yellow GTP badge, “Pontiac” on the rear bumper and Pontiac symbol on the front bumper. Door sill overlay.
-Tints: Not sure yet.
-MISC: Any other exterior things I am forgetting that can be upgraded in this category?


Interior
-Black base. Want a custom interior but trying to make price realistic.
*Floor mats: Black. GTP embroidered in Yellow for the front back and trunk.
-Custom seats: Black seats with yellow centers. Yellow piping and yellow grand prix block lettering. The ones at the link are not my final choice. I want to explore other options if I can find them.
-Noise reduction: Dynamat will be used throughout the vehicle.
-Steering wheel cover: Black and yellow. (unless I get a different wheel)
-Heated seats: If the custom ones do not offer this as an option I will have to install them.
-Plastics: I want to see if I can get the dash and the plastic around the shifter in carbon fiber. PFYC used to have both but now they have neither.
-Steering wheel: Looking into different steering wheels. I can hook up mods to the wheel.
-Steering wheel buttons: The upgraded brighter ones by ZZP. (if I keep the stock steering wheel.)
-Stereo: Just a new deck, no subs. Still looking into options.
-Gauge mount: A pillar gauge mount (3 gauges). Looking into mounting more gauges, not sure where I can.
-Gauges: AeroForce Scan gauge, Wide band O3, Oil Press. Other 3 I am considering if I have room: Trans temp, boost, fuel press. (yes I want it to look like an airplane inside lol) Not sure what name brand to use yet. I do want red light and preferably a black back.
-Buttons, switches: I have seen some cars with them but have no idea which are useful or not. I think the 10 second Intense GTP has like 4 buttons I have no idea what they do. I want some any suggestions? Is a happy knob useful? ( I love buttons n switches lol.)
-Lighting: I want to upgrade all of the interior lights to LED’s. Not sure if I want to go red or yellow yet.
-Shifter: Stock
-Pedals: Stock
-HUD: Yes plz
-Sun roof: Yes plz

Misc:
HP Tuner

[DnaProdigy]

Reserved

[FoSHO99]

If your serious about gas mileage and want to run 12's just go turbo.

[DnaProdigy]

Nah this is going to be a S/C setup. Its one of the aspects i have decided on early. I am slightly considering a twin charged setup but not so much. I believe i should have no problem reaching the goal with the S/C.

[Bio248]

if youre serious about a build and want to go fast while still getting good mileage you picked the wrong car. you need a cam to get what you want.

[DnaProdigy]

As i mentioned i want a high 12sec 1/4 mile with 16/26MGP. As far as i am aware this is possible with the mods i have listed and a good tune, is it not?

[Liquifire]

Update: 08/31/09 Small Additions and spelling corrections.

This is my fantasy build. I am convinced that one day i will construct this car.

Rules: There are some aspects of the build that I am decided upon. They are marked with an asterisk *. So basically if you try and sway my mind you will be beating a dead horse. Discussion on these things is acceptable though. I am posting this because I want POSITIVE feedback and input; also I want to put what’s in my head down on paper. Comments hints, tips and more options are greatly appreciated. Price is not an object for the most part, I man I don’t want to spend 20k on a custom mink interior or something weird. This is a work in progress, the first few posts will be updated and dated constantly with new information.

Goals: I want the car to be able to run a high 12 second ¼ mile while still maintaining an acceptable MPG and rideability. MPG i am shooting for is 16/26 at the LEAST. I would like more and believe i can get 18/28.

Note: I am not expecting people to answer all of the questions i have (their are allot). I pose them as a note for myself as well as looking for input. If you see something you like or dislike let me know!

Key:
* = An aspect i am decided on
+ = Still looking for more info.
- = Not finalized.


The Car:
Basics:

-Platform : 1999 Grand Prix GTP 2 Door.
*Induction: S/C
+Engine: 3800 modified crate engine. Stll looking into options. (ZZP, Triple Edge).

Under the Hood:
Supercharger
-Supercharger: Gen V. Would a Wipple be better? Iv only heard of them.
-Pulley size: 3.0. ZZP MPS. Maybe i can go smaller.
*Blower:Port & polished, Silencers filled.
*Upgraded coupler

Engine
+Block: No idea. All I hear is I should have a higher compression ratio (9.4). I have seen a few crate engines but I don’t know which Is best. The higher CR you go the lower boost you can run effectively
-Heads: Aluminum heads from ZZP. What do ported heads do? ported heads make them flow betterSupporting mods needed? Reduce mpg?
-LIM: Inlet ported. Do outlet ports give any gains?
-Pistons: JE forged Pistons. (zzp)
-Connecting rods: Forged. Where can I get these?
-Radiator: Oversized aluminum radiator (ZZP)
+Cam: Not sure. If they decrease MPG significantly I wont get one.
-Rockers: Nor sure, can you do a cam and rockers?
-Water pump: Upgraded water pump. Does this really do much?
-Pushrods: ?
-Thermostat: 180*

Transmission:
-Rebuild myself or use Triple Edge Performance. Go TEP
+Gear Ratio: Looking into benefits/ Downfalls of each.
-Input shaft: Forged/ Upgraded.
-Output shaft: Forged/ Upgraded.
+Differential: GM Racing Torsen differential. ZZP sells this. Not familier with real benefits
+Torque Converter: Pro torque. Not sure what stall yet.
-Transmission pan with drain plug.

Axles: Stage 2 ZZP. Are their better ones? SFPHQ bullet proof shafts I have heard are better, and the stock gm ones are good.

Electrical:
-Bigger Plug Wires (yellow or red)
-Spark Plugs: Autolite 104’s, .55 gap. coppers ware out quicker, is there a longer lasting option? Are Autolite XP iridium Spark Plugs better? the copper ones give a little better results, but have to be changed out far more often
-Ignition coils: MSD red. On our cars these do not perform any better than the GM ones-
-Alt Rewire

Intercooling
-Intercooler Core: Stage 3 Phenolic from ZZP
+IC Heat exchange: Short stack? Oversized?
-IC reservoir: Nut sure if one is needed or where I get one.
-IC Pump:
-IC pump controller, unnecessary but this is a fantasy build.

Fuel Delivery:
-Fuel Log: ZZP Billet Fuel Log (Chrome).
+Injectors: Not sure if i could get away with stock on a 3.0 genV set up. If i use bigger ones will it severely mess with MPG? the size of the injector will not effect gas mileage.....but you need to go big to have the ability to put more gas in the cylinder if needed. Also consider upgrading the fuel pump depending on how big you need to go.

-Upgraded/Shorter Dogbones??shorter dogbones are for if you drop the car.

-Throttle Body: Northstar (75MM). Or An LS1 TB. Not sure where to get the later.
-Air Filtration: AmsOil Cone filter. (should it be right on the TB if i am going to be running an IC.)


Exhaust:
*Headers: ZZP stainless steel headers.
-Downpipe: Stainless cat’ed downpipe. ZZP
-Catback: Borla.


Suspension:
-Control arms: From Red from ZZP.
-Struts: KYG ABX Adjustable from ZZP.
-Strut tower brace: Red from ZZP
-Sway bar: GMPP front and rear sway bar. From ZZP

Breaks
-Breaks: Baer Eradispeed Big Brake Upgrade. I can’t find other upgrade options.
-Brake lines: Stainless
-5th Break Line: Stainless

Exterior
*Color: Base color will be back, secondary colors will be red and yellow. I will have a custom paint job, the paint job will be designed after a paintball jersey I have. It will not be an exact match but the idea will be the same. I will post the picture of the jersey later.
-Body: SD hood, front air dam, wing. Does anyone know of an aftermarket rear bumper?
-Wheels: Elbrus 104 or Nascar Sonoma. Not sure on size, at what size does performance decrease? I always thought it was bigger than 17.
-Tires: Yokohama ADVAN S4 It.
-Exhaust tips: SLP GTX Stainless. I know there almost impossible to find but I will try, or try to find something similar.
-Headlights and taillights: Stock, maybe I will upgrade to HID’s or some brighter lights. Not sure yet, I don’t want the problems I hear about surrounding HID’s.
*Grille inserts: Stock.*Exterior lighting (Underglow etc): None.
*Door Trim: None.
-Overlays: I will have the yellow GTP badge, “Pontiac” on the rear bumper and Pontiac symbol on the front bumper. Door sill overlay.
-Tints: Not sure yet.
-MISC: Any other exterior things I am forgetting that can be upgraded in this category?


Interior
-Black base. Want a custom interior but trying to make price realistic.
*Floor mats: Black. GTP embroidered in Yellow for the front back and trunk.
-Custom seats: Black seats with yellow centers. Yellow piping and yellow grand prix block lettering. The ones at the link are not my final choice. I want to explore other options if I can find them.
-Noise reduction: Dynamat will be used throughout the vehicle.
-Steering wheel cover: Black and yellow. (unless I get a different wheel)
-Heated seats: If the custom ones do not offer this as an option I will have to install them.
-Plastics: I want to see if I can get the dash and the plastic around the shifter in carbon fiber. PFYC used to have both but now they have neither.
-Steering wheel: Looking into different steering wheels. I can hook up mods to the wheel.
-Steering wheel buttons: The upgraded brighter ones by ZZP. (if I keep the stock steering wheel.)
-Stereo: Just a new deck, no subs. Still looking into options.
-Gauge mount: A pillar gauge mount (3 gauges). Looking into mounting more gauges, not sure where I can.
-Gauges: AeroForce Scan gauge, Wide band O3, Oil Press. Other 3 I am considering if I have room: Trans temp, boost, fuel press. (yes I want it to look like an airplane inside lol) Not sure what name brand to use yet. I do want red light and preferably a black back.
-Buttons, switches: I have seen some cars with them but have no idea which are useful or not. I think the 10 second Intense GTP has like 4 buttons I have no idea what they do. I want some any suggestions? Is a happy knob useful? ( I love buttons n switches lol.)
-Lighting: I want to upgrade all of the interior lights to LED’s. Not sure if I want to go red or yellow yet.
-Shifter: Stock
-Pedals: Stock
-HUD: Yes plz
-Sun roof: Yes plz

Misc:
HP Tuner

please see above in red....You will need a cam....your gas mileage will suffer greatly to get you into this power range. Have you considered doing a turbo? It is easier to get you into this time range. It is not going to be cheap either way so I am not sure what you want
I dont believe you can get 16/26 on any of these setup's. Some people only get that driving a stock vehicle. You will probably be somewhere int he 14/24 range I would guess depending on your mods exactly........Get experienced with the tuner, you are gonna need it. What about meth injection? roller rockers? full roller setup?

[BillBoost37]

I would suggest you read your eyes out about the various mods you are considering. I've read and read and read for a few years now and see a lot of comments and suggestions that could be made to your list.

However so much of it should be fluid and be determined as you are building or after you build by tuning. Like plugs and pulley size. To consider a 3.0 and 104's at this point w/o knowing the compression is the incorrect way to go at it. If you do end up with a 3.0 on a Gen V, I'd think you'll be on 103 plugs. If you go below 3.2 on a Gen V, you should run out of fuel on stock injectors. Kinda like I see your constant mentioning of ZZP as a prelude to a failure. Research will show that there are lower cost and better parts to be had in many of the cases where you said ZZP.

Speed and MPG for the best cost would probably be from a turbo. And once you ride in a turbo car...you'd probably want one.

[DnaProdigy]

please see above in red....You will need a cam....your gas mileage will suffer greatly to get you into this power range. Have you considered doing a turbo? It is easier to get you into this time range. It is not going to be cheap either way so I am not sure what you want
I dont believe you can get 16/26 on any of these setup's. Some people only get that driving a stock vehicle. You will probably be somewhere int he 14/24 range I would guess depending on your mods exactly........Get experienced with the tuner, you are gonna need it. What about meth injection? roller rockers? full roller setup?

Hey thanks for the input!!! I appreciate it. I have considered turbo but really didn't want to. As bio mentioned realistically if i wanted this to be EASY i would just buy another car. I want to see how fast i can go while still maintaining reasonable MPG's. I want to push this setup as far as i can.

16/26 on a stock 99 gtp!? i suppose its possible but iv never heard of it, unless something is functioning improperly. I get 19/28mpg with my mods.

Yea i figured a tuner would be key. I wonder if i can create two BIN's one for speed (1/4 mile) and one for gas.

Since i would have an IC meth would be pointless as far as i know, wouldn't it only raise my octane?

looking at RR's, maybe this would get me closer to my goal withouht the significant decrease in gas mileage.



-I understand about the CR just don't know which ratio would be optimum for my build. Yes it has to be high because i'm looking to run a S/C setup but higher then 9.4?

-Theoretically ported heads, like any ported object, should flow better but are our cars restrictive in this area? Does the lim usually match up well with the Heads?

-SFPHQ bullet proof shafts? Ill have to look around for these.

-Yea i should have noted the MSD coils would only be for look. I have not seen any test results saying they are worse so basically they would just look cool

-O0o how did i forget fuel pump! lol. Not sure how big of injectors i want to go, i want just big enough so i don't go lean at WOT.

Thanks again!

[DnaProdigy]

I would suggest you read your eyes out about the various mods you are considering. I've read and read and read for a few years now and see a lot of comments and suggestions that could be made to your list.

However so much of it should be fluid and be determined as you are building or after you build by tuning. Like plugs and pulley size. To consider a 3.0 and 104's at this point w/o knowing the compression is the incorrect way to go at it. If you do end up with a 3.0 on a Gen V, I'd think you'll be on 103 plugs. If you go below 3.2 on a Gen V, you should run out of fuel on stock injectors. Kinda like I see your constant mentioning of ZZP as a prelude to a failure. Research will show that there are lower cost and better parts to be had in many of the cases where you said ZZP.

Speed and MPG for the best cost would probably be from a turbo. And once you ride in a turbo car...you'd probably want one.

Hey thanks bill!

Yea it is a very rough work in progress. I am still investigating what a good compression should be to reach my goal. I was thinking 9.4 up from the stock L67 8.5.

Yea i mentioned my uncertainty if stock injectors would would suffice so you answered my question.

About the ZZP, i am going to modify my original post to indicate that when i say ZZP i am only trying to mention where i have seen the item in most cases. In fact the only thing i realy want from ZZP is their headers.

Yea turbo cars are cool but i want to retain the "originality" of the vehicle. Again this is a fantasy build, i understand their are much better options out there to reach this goal.

[Liquifire]

Hey thanks for the input!!! I appreciate it. I have considered turbo but really didn't want to. As bio mentioned realistically if i wanted this to be EASY i would just buy another car. I want to see how fast i can go while still maintaining reasonable MPG's. I want to push this setup as far as i can.

16/26 on a stock 99 gtp!? i suppose its possible but iv never heard of it, unless something is functioning improperly. I get 19/28mpg with my mods. there are many people complaining of gas mileage on their cars....go look at some of the Gas Mileage threads.....

Yea i figured a tuner would be key. I wonder if i can create two BIN's one for speed (1/4 mile) and one for gas. I suppose you could, there is also something out there called a "happy knob" that you may want to look into to see if it is for you or not. Do a search....

Since i would have an IC meth would be pointless as far as i know, wouldn't it only raise my octane?

looking at RR's, maybe this would get me closer to my goal withouht the significant decrease in gas mileage. yes it would help as they reduce friction......actual gains depend on what else you are doing with the heads/cam and what ratio RR's you might want.



-I understand about the CR just don't know which ratio would be optimum for my build. Yes it has to be high because i'm looking to run a S/C setup but higher then 9.4? You need the lower compression ratio for higher amounts of boost, not a higher compression ratio....

-Theoretically ported heads, like any ported object, should flow better but are our cars restrictive in this area? Does the lim usually match up well with the Heads?

-SFPHQ bullet proof shafts? Ill have to look around for these. South Florida Pulley Headquarters. I have been looking for the best cv axles around and these seem to be at the top of the list. I dont know if anyone on here actually runs these or not?

-Yea i should have noted the MSD coils would only be for look. I have not seen any test results saying they are worse so basically they would just look cool

-O0o how did i forget fuel pump! lol. Not sure how big of injectors i want to go, i want just big enough so i don't go lean at WOT. When you are scanning you will know when you are maximizing out the injector sizes that you currently have. Stock will not make it to your goal, but the question is, how much do you want to upgrade?

Thanks again!

No Problem..... I can see having gas mileage not that effected on the 3.4 pulley because it is still mostly stock with a few flow upgrades and you are not pushing the limits of anything. Also at this point the PCM is reprogrammed to optimize things that are not being taken full advantage of from the factory. After this point HP and speed comes with a price, as you have already upgraded flow mods to a great degree and increased efficiency of the computer. IMO........after this point when you start doing head work, install a cam of any size, up the compression ratio, and start changing the PCM program to get maximum HP out of it you are going to start losing MPG's fast and pushing the reliability of your vehicle drive train.

[QwikGT]

nitrous

[BillBoost37]

It's all good. I like the way you've listed it out and asked for info/experience as to which ways to go.

And yes..you can have multiple tunes for power and mileage, as well as the various seasons.

[FoSHO99]

That kind of gas mileage your looking for isn't unheard of with a 12sec wbody, but its just not something everyone shoots for when building a fast fwd car. Most of the guys who have done it keep a very basic setup and have one hell of a tune.

There are a lot of things that you listed that you shouldn't need for your goals.

This setup should hit your goal:

Gen V s/c, Phenolic full size I/C, 1.9 RR, 2.8/3.0/3.2 pulleys, 42# inj.

-stock block should be ok unless its high mileage, but still would prob be ok...
-stock internals, stock heads, stock Gen V lim, just opened up inlet for I/C.
-stock fuel pump should be fine, but a fuel pump rewire wouldn't hurt
-there is no reason to port the Gen V s/c, its good in stock form.
-stock axles will hold up very well as long as the car isn't lowered


and Tune. Tune. Tune. and Tune.

[DOUGLASMELTER]

nitrous

well thats the best damn suggestion ive seen so far and i hate suggesting that usually. add to that we have scanned my new intercooler into a cad computer and we will be starting to experiment with better designs soon so yes im already trying to sell an intercooler lol. mine will be much better than zzp and im buying a zzp when we r finished with final revision to prove it.

[blueguy]

I'll say this. Don't waste your money on a ZZP block. Second, Triple Edge Transmission is the ONLY way to go. Third, learn how to tune...very VERY valuable tool.

As for mods to hit 12's. I say slicks, fully built TEP Trans w/ 3.29's, custom tune, full size IC, headers of some kind, #42.5 injectors, FWI, 180*, Autolite 103's, and a 2.6" pulley or even smaller if you can do it...on the GenIII ported in/out with a ported TB combo. Honestly...I'd say if you can launch it good enough you'll get 12's out of that IMO.

[DnaProdigy]

IMO........after this point when you start doing head work, install a cam of any size, up the compression ratio, and start changing the PCM program to get maximum HP out of it you are going to start losing MPG's fast and pushing the reliability of your vehicle drive train.

Hey thanks again. Yea it seems most people are saying the same thing, modifying the engine and valve train can decrease MPG's. I know a happy knob changes timing but i am unsure why one would want to do this on the fly. Time for a Google search. Maybe i can connect different BIN's to it.

nitrous

I have considered it and maybe a small shot (75 or less) would be plausible. I do have forged engine internals listed. As far as i am aware this would reduce any damage caused by nitrous.

It's all good. I like the way you've listed it out and asked for info/experience as to which ways to go.

And yes..you can have multiple tunes for power and mileage, as well as the various seasons.

Thanks, ill have to look into how to change BIN's on the fly. Def a gas saving tune and a racing tune. Maybe i could connect it to the performance shift button.

That kind of gas mileage your looking for isn't unheard of with a 12sec wbody, but its just not something everyone shoots for when building a fast fwd car. Most of the guys who have done it keep a very basic setup and have one hell of a tune.

There are a lot of things that you listed that you shouldn't need for your goals.

This setup should hit your goal:

Gen V s/c, Phenolic full size I/C, 1.9 RR, 2.8/3.0/3.2 pulleys, 42# inj.

-stock block should be ok unless its high mileage, but still would prob be ok...
-stock internals, stock heads, stock Gen V lim, just opened up inlet for I/C.
-stock fuel pump should be fine, but a fuel pump rewire wouldn't hurt
-there is no reason to port the Gen V s/c, its good in stock form.
-stock axles will hold up very well as long as the car isn't lowered

and Tune. Tune. Tune. and Tune.

Yea i remember a few high 12' low 13 cars on here getting decent mileage. Yea half of the stuff i have listed it probably unneeded but hey why not this is a fantasy build. It seems your right i am over-thinking how in-depth i have to go with the block and the valve train. Thanks for injector size! I was curious about this.

You say the gen V does not need to be ported. Would their be any gains from a P&P even if they are hypothetical and untested?

I have been reading about tuning ALLOT and the more i read the more of a necessity it is. If i knew what i did now when i got my car i would have bought a tuner first.

I'll say this. Don't waste your money on a ZZP block. Second, Triple Edge Transmission is the ONLY way to go. Third, learn how to tune...very VERY valuable tool.

As for mods to hit 12's. I say slicks, fully built TEP Trans w/ 3.29's, custom tune, full size IC, headers of some kind, #42.5 injectors, FWI, 180*, Autolite 103's, and a 2.6" pulley or even smaller if you can do it...on the GenIII ported in/out with a ported TB combo. Honestly...I'd say if you can launch it good enough you'll get 12's out of that IMO.

Ya the ZZP block is quite pricey, although technically price is not supposed to be an option for this fantasy build. I love ZZP's Q & A section for the block. Basically it goes like this. Q: Does the bigger bore do anything. A: We don't know, probably. Yea it would be overkill, and if it were bored out i would need bigger pistons, which as far as i know decrease MPG's.

You say gen3 S/C is their a particular reason for this? As far as i am aware the Gen V is more efficient, are you just trying to say i can get away with a Gen 3 to reach my goal? Thanks for confirming Inj size, also trans gears! Ill have to modify my original post today.

[blueguy]

Reason I say Gen III...easier to drop pulley sizes and more "forgiving" I guess you could say because if you drop pulley sizes on a Gen V you better be sure to have supporting mods as they knock way easier...as you understand...they are more efficient. Plus...there is nothing like a screaming 2.6" GenIII blower

[Bio248]

there is no way you can run a 2.6 without a big cam. literally impossible.

[blueguy]

Very possible. 2.6'ed Regal GS, no knock with a stage 2 IC and a custom tune and a S1X. Here in town. High 12's on street tires. He is on KCPMC too. Sure was a sweet car before the cam key got bent...and Brian would be prolly at a 2.3" on a genIII as he is running a 2.8" on a GenV with a XP.