"You're likley pulling timing because of TM not being disabled" The argument was with a stock ECU correct? I'm completely aware of the function and purpose of a converter and the associated sensors. All i was stating that on a stock ECM the car will pull timing if there is something wrong with either o2 sensors, among many other sensors. My 2006 under the same conditons and very close ambient tempature and load pulls quite a bit of timing the last few days because of a P0411 code coming up for an air injection issue. Any time the code is set it pulls timing. There is no change in fuel trim. I can send you the data from my logger, maybe you can tell me why and how it does it. I'm not trying to be a jerk or a know-it-all. I don't need a forum to justify or satisfy the ownership of any of my vehicles. But it seems the over all outside involment in this website is limited and i can see why.