Thread: Need some turbo info.

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  1. #1 Need some turbo info. 
    TDCRacing
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    Yeah I've decided to stop f'in around and do it right.Do it so right that I wont have the need to do it again....Hopefully



    I'm new to turbo's (never had one) but am learning very quickly about them.I've always realized that they are hands down the best for making power but never expected that I would ever want this much power.



    Again I was wrong.



    I plan to do things right and take my time especially since i'm only 20 and this is only my second engine I have ever rebuilt.The other one i did was a 302.


    I'll be updating the list and the process as I go in hopes to keep me motivated and quicly moving through the long long list of things that I have to do.


    And last but not least if anyone has any suggestions or comments about anything i'm doing wrong please don't hesitate to input.



    The list of parts that will be going into the engne will be as follows.I will be adding things and changing things as time goes on but will post up any changes for anyone who cares to follow along.









    POWER-ADDER:

    Stattama turbo kit(T67)-3599.99
    Oversize Intercooler-1300.00

    CAMSHAFT CHOICE:

    Statamma turbo camshaft ST4 - 314.99




    HEADS:

    Stock Heads (extreamly aggresive port job. 1.9/1.57 valves)




    ENGINE PARTS:

    L26 low miliage engine-1000.00

    Cometic MLS Head Gaskets -159.99

    INTENSEā„¢ 3800 Oil Pressure Kit - 27.99

    Meziere Electric Water Pump -279.99-Got it for 200.00 w/3000 miles

    Comp Cams OE-R lifters- 159.99

    Comp cams 105 springs- 130.00


    FUEL SYSTEM:

    Racetronics fuel pump with harness- 210.00

    65# Mototron injectors- 329.99-Got them for 200.00 w/3000 miles


    BOLTS:

    ARP Flex Plate Bolts-19.99

    ARP Head Studs-89.99


    TRANSMISSION:
    GM Racing 1 inch 3.29 gear set-999.99
    Last edited by TDCRacing; 01-26-2009 at 09:27 PM.
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  2. #2 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
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    Pics, they do not exist.
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  3. #3 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    TDCRacing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Street Wolf View Post
    Pics, they do not exist.
    LOL...But SOON to exist......There you happy???
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  4. #4 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDCRacing View Post
    LOL...But SOON to exist......There you happy???
    No.











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  5. #5 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    TDCRacing
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    Somehow I knew that was comming....Somehow
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  6. #6 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    I live here. SyntheticShield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TDCRacing View Post
    There you happy???
    Neither am I.
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  7. #7 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    SE Level Member Sinister Drag Designs's Avatar
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    Just a few ideas you might want to consider
    Quote Originally Posted by TDCRacing View Post
    Yeah I've decided to stop f'in around and do it right.Do it so right that I wont have the need to do it again....Hopefully



    I'm new to turbo's (never had one) but am learning very quickly about them.I've always realized that they are hands down the best for making power but never expected that I would ever want this much power.



    Again I was wrong.



    I plan to do things right and take my time especially since i'm only 20 and this is only my second engine I have ever rebuilt.The other one i did was a 302.


    I'll be updating the list and the process as I go in hopes to keep me motivated and quicly moving through the long long list of things that I have to do.


    And last but not least if anyone has any suggestions or comments about anything i'm doing wrong please don't hesitate to input.



    The list of parts that will be going into the engne will be as follows.I will be adding things and changing things as time goes on but will post up any changes for anyone who cares to follow along.









    POWER-ADDER:

    Stattama turbo kit(T67)-3599.99What are you doing about an IC?



    CAMSHAFT CHOICE:

    INTENSEā„¢ Turbocharged 3800 Camshafts(stage4) - 349.99
    Any reason for this cam choice over say a ST3,STR3 or a cam that works well with stock heads?





    HEADS:

    Stock Heads (extreamly aggresive port job. 1.9/1.57 valves)




    ENGINE PARTS:

    L36 Higher milage engine(For Rebuild)- 300.00

    Diamond Uncoated Forged Piston/Pin/Ring Kit(8.0:1)- 699.99

    Cometic MLS Head Gaskets -159.99

    INTENSEā„¢ 3800 Oil Pressure Kit - 27.99

    Clevite 77Ā® TriMetalā„¢ Main Bearings - 69.99

    Clevite 77Ā® TriMetalā„¢ Cam Bearings -22.99

    Clevite 77Ā® TriMetalā„¢ "H-Series" Rod Bearings - 69.99

    For all that this will cost a L32 bottom end with a series II front cover might be a more effective solution depending on who builds the block
    The fuel system will limit power more then your engine will,so i doubt you will need to go that low of compression. not to mention the 8.5:1 from the L32 will help spool the T67 better.

    FUEL SYSTEM:

    INTENSEā„¢ 60# (65#) Fuel Package(new pump and injectors) - 450.00
    I would consider getting the FP rewire with that setup. Builds around that horsepower tend to need a Boost-a-pump as well to get the flow needed.
    If you plan to push more power this upgrading the fuel system past this might be needed. But with all the money you will save from not building a block you should have more then enough


    BOLTS:

    ARP Flex Plate Bolts-19.99

    ARP Connecting Rod Bolts- 99.99

    ARP Main Stud Kit - 49.99

    ARP GM Series II/III 3800 Head Stud Kit -89.99




    TRANSMISSION:
    GM Racing 1 inch 3.29 gear set-999.99
    smart idea,whos building the rest of the trans? What stall?
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  8. #8 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    TDCRacing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister Drag Designs View Post
    Just a few ideas you might want to consider

    Well personally I wouldn't feel comfortable with boost levels around 22 psi on non forged pistons.I also planned on getting l32 rods. And I would feel way more comfortable if the entire engine was rebuilt.


    So you think 8.5:1 would be a better combonation?



    There is no reason in particular that i chose an l36 block except that I came across it pretty cheap.


    I won't be using stock heads just stock castings.I'm not sure if you saw that or not.


    So let me know what you think after you read this.
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  9. #9 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    TDCRacing
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    Oh and for the transmission,Dave built it I have the 7/8'ths chain now. I know they stopped making the 1'' gmr so i'm going to pick one up soon here before they run out.

    I heard he is suppoed to be comming out with a better 3rd clutch setup here soon because of some of the wot 2-3 shift problems some people have with high boost levels.


    What stall would you recomend?

    This will be street driven also.and plan on having a cooler installed to help with the higher stall.
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  10. #10 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    GT Level Member Meemperor's Avatar
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    I haven't been here in a while but let me break it down to you.

    We've already built two of these !(Well we're talking one around 500whp and another in the 600whp range, I'm going to give you the 600whp break down)


    First thing is first :

    Use as STOCK L26 with low miles,

    Next, the stattama turbo kit is okay, BUT and this is a big but ! The 2.5" charge tubing is going to be holding you back, not because it's a huge restriction, but because the way your MAF is going to read. It's easier and IMO better to tune with 3" IC piping, and espeically at boost levels you're going to need (18 PSI on an L26, not sure on an 8.0:1 but most likely in the 22-25 range) I would order everything but the charge piping and IC and have it made custom and 3". I'm sure if you E-mailed Matt M he could hook that up for you anyway. Personally I think going to a bigger ball bearing turbo is a better idea than the T67, because it does spool so well there are driveability issues on the street (Especially highway pulls ! Yay car jumping 3 lanes !!!)

    That stage 4 Intense Cam is actually pretty good IMO, IS3 blower camshaft actually works VERY well with a turbo set up on lots of boost as well, but Tim king Proves that IS4TC is very good indeed ! !

    THE HEADS ! I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH !!!!! "extremely aggresive does not mean GOOD Just because your intake and exhaust ports are large doesn't meant that they're any more efficent. Let someone experience deal with the heads, ALSO get them you port your L36/L26 LIM (which you'll also be using) to match up to the inlet on the heads. Not sure what head gaskets you plan on running but people like the Fel-Pro's here. Although I'm the only one using them I like MLS myself !

    I personalyl recomend Canadian Cylinder head tech. Canadian Cylinder Head
    They have done amazing stuff on our heads, and all the fastest cars here use them.


    Forget that fuel system. Get a Racetronix pump, re-wire and 66# Disc injectors. Our cars DO NOT like the siemens 60's even though everyone uses them. The Disc injector is superior in every way for our application. PRJ can get you all of that.


    Transmission let's break it down here :
    You need a GM racing chain
    Zpack clutchs etc.. etc..
    You'll also need a billet Flexplate and a good converter.(Cracking a flexplate everytime you tune a car is very annoying !)
    Although no one here is running one, I strongly suggest an LSD just to help with the retarded amount of torque steer you're going to have !!!
    Get a 3K stall, anything higer is annoying on the street IMO.

    The problem now becomes that even with a shift kit that the transmission isn't holding enough pressure and will tend to pop out of 3rd gear. You need to drill out the passages in the vavle body just like a GM racing transmission, and get rid of a shift kit and just let the tranny use as much pressure as possible.


    PS. 22 PSi on stock L26 is fine as long as you're running Meth. I wouldn't go past 18psi without meth. Remeber for the cost of building 1 3800, you can buy 3-5 blocks, and by then you should have the damn tune figured out Actually you shouldn't blow if the tune is good.


    Oh also ditch the oil pressure kit, it doesn't really do anything helpful.


    EDIT: You don't have suspention listed ? and tires ?

    With all that HP on the street you'll want a nice light rim so you're not stressing your inputshaft/chain and axles, and something with decent sized tires on it. Tire choice is up to you, but pick wisely or else the car is just going to spinn everywhere... even at 75mph

    traction bars - buy them. Do not argue.
    Lumpy Gen 3
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  11. #11 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    TDCRacing
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    You're input was appreciated. I have asked you a cupple questions in the quote if you don't mind answering them i would appreciate it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Meemperor View Post
    I haven't been here in a while but let me break it down to you.

    We've already built two of these !(Well we're talking one around 500whp and another in the 600whp range, I'm going to give you the 600whp break down)


    First thing is first :

    Use as STOCK L26 with low miles,

    Why stock l26? And what cars can I find an L26 in?? I figured you would say l32 becuase of the stronger rods. But then again as I understand it no one has ever broke any 3800 rod in any build.

    Next, the stattama turbo kit is okay, BUT and this is a big but ! The 2.5" charge tubing is going to be holding you back, not because it's a huge restriction, but because the way your MAF is going to read. It's easier and IMO better to tune with 3" IC piping, and espeically at boost levels you're going to need (18 PSI on an L26, not sure on an 8.0:1 but most likely in the 22-25 range)

    .So you're saying about 18psi will net me around 500-600 hp?I am very suprised that the i/c kit comes with 2.5'' piping. I was thinking at least 3.5''. I have a place that can custon manderal bend up to like 5'' I belive. I plan on having It set up with a passengerside throttle body in hopes to make the install a little cleaner and make things a little easier to work on. I plan on doing this with the stattama l67 sheet metal intake.almost 800.00 dollars is rediculas for intercooling piping.I can do it for a 1/3 of that max. Would you recomend going with the full size from stattama or Is there a better one else where?



    I would order everything but the charge piping and IC and have it made custom and 3". I'm sure if you E-mailed Matt M he could hook that up for you anyway. Personally I think going to a bigger ball bearing turbo is a better idea than the T67, because it does spool so well there are driveability issues on the street (Especially highway pulls ! Yay car jumping 3 lanes !!!)


    .I'll consider that. Wouldnt the bigger turbo and ball bearing be about the same as a non ball bearing t67?


    That stage 4 Intense Cam is actually pretty good IMO, IS3 blower camshaft actually works VERY well with a turbo set up on lots of boost as well, but Tim king Proves that IS4TC is very good indeed ! !


    .Awesome


    THE HEADS ! I CAN NOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH !!!!! "extremely aggresive does not mean GOOD Just because your intake and exhaust ports are large doesn't meant that they're any more efficent. Let someone experience deal with the heads, ALSO get them you port your L36/L26 LIM (which you'll also be using) to match up to the inlet on the heads. Not sure what head gaskets you plan on running but people like the Fel-Pro's here. Although I'm the only one using them I like MLS myself !


    .I planned on the mls also. You say most people are using stock thickness felpro's?

    I personalyl recomend Canadian Cylinder head tech. Canadian Cylinder Head
    They have done amazing stuff on our heads, and all the fastest cars here use them.


    Forget that fuel system. Get a Racetronix pump, re-wire and 66# Disc injectors. Our cars DO NOT like the siemens 60's even though everyone uses them. The Disc injector is superior in every way for our application. PRJ can get you all of that.


    .Ok cool



    Transmission let's break it down here :
    You need a GM racing chain
    Zpack clutchs etc.. etc..
    You'll also need a billet Flexplate and a good converter.(Cracking a flexplate everytime you tune a car is very annoying !)
    Although no one here is running one, I strongly suggest an LSD just to help with the retarded amount of torque steer you're going to have !!!
    Get a 3K stall, anything higer is annoying on the street IMO.


    .Please explain why our flex plates crake this often?? 3000 stall is what I was planning on.And the flex plate is in order also


    The problem now becomes that even with a shift kit that the transmission isn't holding enough pressure and will tend to pop out of 3rd gear. You need to drill out the passages in the vavle body just like a GM racing transmission, and get rid of a shift kit and just let the tranny use as much pressure as possible.

    .My tranny already has all of the above.I was talking to Dave and he mentioned this problem that occasionally happens. He is in the process of doing something with the 3rd clutches to fix this problem without maxing out pressure by doing valve body madifications.He says an eta is a cupple of weeks. Way before this build will be done.



    PS. 22 PSi on stock L26 is fine as long as you're running Meth. I wouldn't go past 18psi without meth. Remeber for the cost of building 1 3800, you can buy 3-5 blocks, and by then you should have the damn tune figured out Actually you shouldn't blow if the tune is good.


    Oh also ditch the oil pressure kit, it doesn't really do anything helpful.


    EDIT: You don't have suspention listed ? and tires ?

    With all that HP on the street you'll want a nice light rim so you're not stressing your inputshaft/chain and axles, and something with decent sized tires on it. Tire choice is up to you, but pick wisely or else the car is just going to spinn everywhere... even at 75mph

    traction bars - buy them. Do not argue.

    .I planned on a custom traction bar setup that is hidden by the license plate while driving on the street,I planned on the biggest widest tire I could fit.I didnt realize there was TOO much a lighter tire on the market.I already have the 5 star aluminum.Would some prostars be a better choice or some draglites?

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  12. #12 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    TDCRacing
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    I like the idea of spinning at 75mph. while it's not a good thing I have never seen or had anything with that mech power do that in person.
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  13. #13 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    GT Level Member DesQ27's Avatar
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    I saw a blown Roush 2 do it at 60mph..he was pushing 660whp though. God I loved that car.

    Sounds like a fun project. My first build was a 302 when I was 16. Bored it .060 over and lots more. Hope it works out..I'll check in time to time to watch!
    "True measure of a man's strength is his self control in time of great stress" - ME
    2002 GTP: U-Bend and Resonator Delete; Mufflers Modded; K&N Short Ram Air; WS6 Ram Air Hood
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  14. #14 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    GT Level Member Meemperor's Avatar
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    Why stock l26? And what cars can I find an L26 in?? I figured you would say l32 becuase of the stronger rods. But then again as I understand it no one has ever broke any 3800 rod in any build.
    Compression is going to make power, it's going to spool you faster and the rods are the same to my info. Not to mention driving around town on the L26 is much better L26 is in base model Grand prix's some buicks ummm .. any N/A 3800 after 2004 for pontiac and 2005 for all GM. Stock L26 is cheap and if you do happen to blow it it's cheap to repair. If anything happens you're going to chip a piston and that's not a hard fix either really.

    So you're saying about 18psi will net me around 500-600 hp?I am very suprised that the i/c kit comes with 2.5'' piping. I was thinking at least 3.5''. I have a place that can custon manderal bend up to like 5'' I belive. I plan on having It set up with a passengerside throttle body in hopes to make the install a little cleaner and make things a little easier to work on. I plan on doing this with the stattama l67 sheet metal intake.almost 800.00 dollars is rediculas for intercooling piping.I can do it for a 1/3 of that max. Would you recomend going with the full size from stattama or Is there a better one else where?
    Any good Intercooler set up is going to cost you over $1000, the reason it's 2.5" piping is because you can't fit two 3" pipes through the fender. It's an easy fix though, angle the turbo toward the passenger side, and run piping to the IC from there. I don't believe in that sheet metal intake I like the L26 one, or using an Aussie style set up. But that would solve a lot of your problems and make running the 3" piping much easier. Maybe on the Stattama kit it is upgraded, but I doubt it.



    That's an XP cam, Cartuning Turbo kit w/ 3" downpipe, L26, Canadian Cylinder head techs heads and LIM on alky and Sunuco 94. I BELIEVE that was on 19 PSI it was either on 19psi or 21psi. But either way that's a lot of power on pump gas with an XP, which is not a great cam for turbo set ups !!!


    The Stock rims are good, but there just aren't a good array of tires in that size anymore IMO.

    But really, talk to Matt M. He'll help you out, he was pretty damn honest to me when I talked to him about a build last time.
    Lumpy Gen 3
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  15. #15 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    TDCRacing
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesQ27 View Post
    I saw a blown Roush 2 do it at 60mph..he was pushing 660whp though. God I loved that car.

    Sounds like a fun project. My first build was a 302 when I was 16. Bored it .060 over and lots more. Hope it works out..I'll check in time to time to watch!
    lol sounds like me and you have something in common. I belive i was around 18 though.

    I'll be sure to keep you updated
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  16. #16 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    TDCRacing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meemperor View Post
    Compression is going to make power, it's going to spool you faster and the rods are the same to my info. Not to mention driving around town on the L26 is much better L26 is in base model Grand prix's some buicks ummm .. any N/A 3800 after 2004 for pontiac and 2005 for all GM. Stock L26 is cheap and if you do happen to blow it it's cheap to repair. If anything happens you're going to chip a piston and that's not a hard fix either really.



    Any good Intercooler set up is going to cost you over $1000, the reason it's 2.5" piping is because you can't fit two 3" pipes through the fender. It's an easy fix though, angle the turbo toward the passenger side, and run piping to the IC from there. I don't believe in that sheet metal intake I like the L26 one, or using an Aussie style set up. But that would solve a lot of your problems and make running the 3" piping much easier. Maybe on the Stattama kit it is upgraded, but I doubt it.



    That's an XP cam, Cartuning Turbo kit w/ 3" downpipe, L26, Canadian Cylinder head techs heads and LIM on alky and Sunuco 94. I BELIEVE that was on 19 PSI it was either on 19psi or 21psi. But either way that's a lot of power on pump gas with an XP, which is not a great cam for turbo set ups !!!


    The Stock rims are good, but there just aren't a good array of tires in that size anymore IMO.

    But really, talk to Matt M. He'll help you out, he was pretty damn honest to me when I talked to him about a build last time.

    Thats really impressive. Thanks again for posting that. I have been speaking with Matt. He suggested the stattama t67 kit for what i would like to run. Wich is mid 10's.


    It's going to be a bad ass daily driver and I appreciate all the help i have gotten so far. I'll take you're advice on everything you've said so far.
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  17. #17 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    TDCRacing
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    Wow.... Just found an l26 with 6000 miles on it for 1000 bucks. Not bad at all. May be picking that up soon depending on If he has it for a little while.
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  18. #18 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    TDCRacing
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    What about a fpr? Look at the link from prj. notice the aftermarket frp in the pic if you scroll down.Looks like it's on a whipple setup



    Welcome to PRJ.Performance
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  19. #19 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    I live here. UR LOSN's Avatar
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    I was bummed there are no pics!!!!!


    ALSO VERY IMPORTANT: since you are building your race motor. CRYO the bottomend!!! you will have an even stronger bottomend!!!!

    it will handle whatever you throw at it!
    2001 GTP- PT76 turbo, Intense Drag cars old engine, Stage 4 Intense turbo cam,FMIC,150 wet,Double roller timing chain,Diamond forged coated pistons 8:0:1,Diamond piston rings,Cryoed L32 connecting rods,Cryoed crank,Clevite77 main bearings,Clevite77 cam bearings,Clevite77 L32 rod bearings,ARP Everything, Intense/meizere true billet Flexplate,Intense Wilson UIM/LIM,Intense oil pressure kit,Cometic,OE-R lifters,Cryoed L67 block,ATI turbo dampner,80# inject,Weldon 2035 fp,Aero Fuel Rails,AL cradle
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  20. #20 Re: 500 WHP Pump gas build up (Pic Heavy) 
    Donating Users chrisb's Avatar
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    that oil pressure kit from intense i believe its a stock spring with a washer behind it to give it the extra psi. i can messure it and give ya the specs of the washer if you like it should save ya 30 bucks

    oh zzp has that tranny from the turbo impala for sale it has a 1inch chain in it
    Last edited by chrisb; 12-19-2008 at 05:09 PM.
    99 Grand Prix old build- CAI, Custom exhaust, HV3, Stage 2 TB, custom tune, ported heads intense s1x cam, headers.
    Nothing great Just a small T66 Turbo with a Hv3 On a stock tranny untill i finish the other one.
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