What The Hell Went Through GM's Mind That Made Them Kill Pontiac

[txslow6]

Chevy cars are still between $25-30,000 new, how are they affordable? Cadillac between $40-100,000. Hence, the 2012 Pontiac Grand Prix, restyled..$20,000 for a well equipped. With Chevy becoming quickly focused on selling cars that l

The only issue I see with this is that you are failing to factor in inflation. Take my 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix for instance which was stickered at $25,912. In today's dollars that comes out to be $37,034. So in reality cars of today are cheaper than they were before. Are they still "expensive" for the consumer? That's debatable and depends on a persons income. One could even argue that the majority of members of this forum probably couldn't afford a new car anyways hence why the members here settle for a Grand Prix.

[killain]

Killain, if you bothered to read the responses in this thread prior to posting, you'd understand why your argument and opinions were defeated before you even stated them. What good is a "crazed following" for a brand if that crazed following consists of a bunch of broke-asses who can't afford a new car? They're not exactly going to impact sales in any way, shape or form. GM needed NEW car sales to stay afloat, and the Pontiac division was quite simply not doing that for them, where as Chevy is their most recognized division, and Buick and Cadillac sell very well globally (2:1 vs. US sales). Sorry, but nostalgia is not a legit currency in any country.

I did, This is ONLY MY OPINION. this thread is overdue for the gravedigger, but I was referring to the mentality at General Motors leadership or helm, or the lack there-of. Besides the Pontiac is dead and while it is fun to think of what a 2012 Fully equipped 'Firebird' "Trans Am" might be, Pontiac is dead, and it's never coming back. RearGMfan is quite right, Gm decided the Pontiac was a waste and even us talking about "What was Gm thinking . . ." we should be big boys and talk about the real interesting things like what we can do about our Pontiac's that are left. This is a childish forum when we get together and "rant", Or at least RearGMfan and many others here think subjects like this are stupid. Personally, I though we could and should talk about Grand Prix's AND GM. But obviously that is not accepted here. Like other forums sometimes these 'Type' threads are magnets for negitive posts.

[twol8uluz]

Lmao @ all the ppl calling this thread stupid ...........but still commented and debating on it.

[SF9777]

Wow this thread just keeps going, i love pontiac and GM cars, i would love to have a GTO, G8, GP, or even the Trans am as much as any other pontiac enthusiast. Pontiac had to let go since of no money coming in. I wish pontiac was still alive but hey, it was better pontiac than say like Chevy. Corvettes dead would not be so good for GM against there competitors. Either way i would keep my Pontiac forever since you will not find any other like it ever again. Bottom line Pontiac is gone, but GM could find a way to bring it back, if not look for a pontiac car rebadged as a chevy and really is dumb to keep a brand that is making you loose money, no matter how much you like it.

RareGMFan you made very true points, i really like pontiac but at least GM has chevy, the cars from both brands were pretty much similar. Weather its pontiac cars or chevy cars i would love to have any of those cars any day.

[matt5112]

Opinions don't sell cars.

Unless its the opinion of consumer reports.

[RareGMFan]

Fiat came to america several years ago with junk cars, and they are now making a resurgence in the sub-compact market, I would call that a re-tool in the "American market."

...resurgence? I have yet to see a Fiat on the road around here. And when you're starting at the bottom, it's easy to make numbers look good. For example (not actual numbers), let's say a brand only sold 1000 cars a year ago, and this year, it sold 3000 cars. On paper, this translates to "Fiat increases sales by 300%!" Mathematically, this is correct and sounds pretty damn impressive by anyone's standards. However, when you look at what the actual statistics are, not so impressive. Though it's too early to tell how they'll fare in the long run, Fiat is pretty far from a resurgence at this point.

One more argument I would like to see refuted...GM only kept GMC around because they can rebadge the Silverado line for little overhead making them HUGELY profitable. That's the only reason GMC outsold any of the other GM lines besides Chevy.

How is that an argument? GMs are almost ALL rebadged, period, so why would you only point out GMC? What do you think a-body, or f-body, or w-body, or h-body, or n-body, or j-body, etc platform is referring to? Same cars with slightly different skins and slightly different features being sold under different badges. This has been their recipe for a few decades. See, this is what I'm talking about. You come in like you have this great point to make, and then you make a statement that is completely void of any logic or thought. The only way someone can make erroneous statements of this magnitude is if, again, as I suggested several times, your sense of logic and reason are being blinded by your love for Pontiac, or if you are one serious dumbass. I'll let you make the distinction.

I can buy a brand new Dodge Ram, with Hemi for less than $25,000, look up the Dodge express line, Regular cab, short bed. Dodge wanted to make their trucks accessible to blue collar workers

Well that's very nice of them, but a Silverado 1500 regular cab STANDARD bed can be had with the option of the 5.3L VVT Vortec Flexfuel V8 for just under $24k (most expensive motor offered, cheaper V8s available).

And nothing that chevy makes besides the Aveo, I would consider cheap by any standards..

Chevy doesn't make the Aveo anymore. That was announced almost 2 years ago. It was replaced by the Sonic, which starts at $14k. The Cruze starts at $17k and the Malibu starts at $22k. That's more than reasonable for what those cars are.

Chevy cars are still between $25-30,000 new, how are they affordable?

No offense, but if $25k for a car strikes you as unreasonable or unaffordable, you need to get a bit more ambitious with your job/career, or you're still stuck in the value of the dollar from the '90s. At the very least, you're in no financial position to have helped Pontiac stay alive.

Cadillac between $40-100,000. Hence, the 2012 Pontiac Grand Prix, restyled..$20,000 for a well equipped.

....aaaaaand you just illustrated why American car companies make better cars for the overseas market than they do right here at home: Because AMERICANS ARE CHEAP! They SAY they want quality, but they don't want to pay for it. $20k this day and age for a brand new, well equipped mid-sized car??? Smoke crack much? So basically, you want a brand new, well built, well equipped, mid-sized car for the price of a 2 or 3 year old used car. That's your brilliant formula for saving Pontiac? This is how they could have avoided failing in your book? Definitely not a math or business major, ARE you? And I thought GM had some morons running the company.

My first car was an '86 Pontiac 6000 STE which still had the original sticker in the glove box. That car, equipped with dual power seats, stickered for over $16k. That's 26 YEARS AGO! My current GTP, fully loaded with the addition of SE appearance package retailed for over $29k, and that was 11 years ago! As txslow6 pointed out, if you actually do the math on inflation, cars today are CHEAPER than they would have been for a comparable car in the economy of past eras. If today's prices strike you as expensive, the problem has more to do with your lack of sufficient income than it does with the price of the cars. It is not the job or corporations to lower their prices on their products so that everyone of every level of status and income can afford those products. It's on you to make more of yourself so that you can provide the means to obtain those products.

[sLpGPGT]

i do wish they brought back Pontiac but whats done is done, doubt they'll ever come back

[Tank2001GT]

Go back a few posts ago, your other A$$ brother Stealthee was tryin to make a point about GMC selling, so why should they ax GMC over Pontiac? If I make 1 car, and it's heavily popular, then make one with a different badge, they look the same, but it's not costing me ANY money to rebadge the original...I make a lot of MONEY. If somewhere along the line I realize that making 2 cars the same under 2 different badges is a horrible idea, and it doesn't affect my bottom line, I kill that line. Simple math moron. As far as your comparison to the different frame size's. There are obvious differences between car makes, there are only a few cases that can be pointed out otherwise. Example, late nineties early 2000's, Olds Cutlass, and Chevy Malibu looked alike, Pontiac had the Grand Am, Olds had the Alero..no chevy looked like the Grand Prix, I would compare the Impala to a Bonneville. If you want to break down everything I say, like you are some college professor on a power trip, go right ahead. The fact that you make yourself look like a bigger a-hole than me, is more than okay.

I have driven through car lots, gotten out and looked. I have yet to see a Cruze under $24,000, I have yet to find a Malibu less than $26,000. What you are referring to are FLEET vehicles, that are sold to large companies at that cost. They advertise that as a starting price, but unless you request a fleet car, rarely are you going to get a new Malibu for $17k. I looked at the AUTO R/V publication last night...found a BRAND NEW Dodge Ram, with Hemi, 20 in wheels, nicely equipped for $20,995...Closest I found to that in Chevy or GMC is $24,995. So what's your point?

I did make a statement about an well equipped GP for $20k, why not? I didn't say a fully loaded, Lexus luxury type vehicle did I retard? I don't want a Malibu or a Cruze, they are both equally ugly. Look at the oversea's car market why don't ya. Cars are half the size, for half the cost, but because of emissions being twice as strict, car companies over there are already producing technology that could be utilized over here. Yet, it's not. It's not that american's are cheap, but if the technology has been out for a while, WHY should it cost me a ton of money to get it? Example, if they produced a car tomorrow on BRAND NEW technology that got 100 mpg's. Ok, I can see spending the money for new technology. Cars oversea's have been getting 70 mpg's for a LONG time, it's not new technology. Several people back in the seventies figured out a way to get 30+ mpg's on a cadillac, among other cars. GM bought that technology, scrapped it, and we are still thinking that it's new achievements to get 30 mpg's. GM actually paid people to keep that stuff hush hush, made them sign a contract that if they brought it back, they would be sued.

You are always gonna be blinded by what you think you know, just like the rest of us, you have proven nothing but yourself as a pompous jack-hole. You have actually proven what lack of logic, with a know it all attitude really gets, crap opinions on what you read from a book about GM. You keep referring to me about my being a fan of Pontiac making me blind. I doubt it. I have owned 4 pontiac's in my life, and to be honest, I am a bigger Jeep fan. You have turned this thread into a big f'ing joke. So go ahead, spend 35 minutes scamming out all my quotes and putting in your two cents, as if anyone gives a rat's a$$ what you think. I think how I think, if it's not effecting your life, just shut the hell up you big baby. This has been kinda like being brought down to your level, and beaten with stupidity because of experience.

Last thing. I made a comment that GP's have become popular used cars. I see them EVERYWHERE. Didn't they have to be sold as new at one time to be now be considered used? So sales must not have been that bad, because I doubt there are any GP's sitting on a lot somewhere that have never been titled and have 10 miles on them. So weird..

[whitehead]

Should just lock this thread, really is the same stuff being said over and over and over again. But on a good note, I found a C5 Corvette for 18k and looks uber sexy.....

[RareGMFan]

[MrPoopyButthole]

Nah No lock, figured this thread could beat a few more dead horses, kill some of your computer resources, waste pixels and make no sense

[Fivefingerdeathpunch]

[Scottydoggs]

hey but Buick's still around, aint they lol

the only Pontiac i miss is my 70 firebird. that was a beast for sure.

[matt5112]

Locate a Vehicle Search Results on gm.ca

Oh lookie there.

they're all 20K....... in cannuckistan.

Which means you should be paying less than that.

Its not like you can go into the dealership and ORDER that 17K malibu or anything.

Its not like GM takes orders for any of their cars really.

They just sorta make what they feel will sell best and thats that.

You're insane if you think they can accommodate the customer at all.

[SeanGTP]

no chevy looked like the Grand Prix, I would compare the Impala to a Bonneville

Didn't they have to be sold as new at one time to be now be considered used

a.) Monte Carlo looks 100% the same as a grand prix. Funny how that works, considering they're the same car.

b.) Nope. After a car sits for long enough, 2 years I believe, it automatically starts losing value and is marked as used.
Other than dealership experience, I know one specific case where the local Chevy dealer had to drop their Mitsubishi line and send all their new Mitsi's over to the other Mitsi dealer, but one 2009 Galant didn't get to go because even though it had NEVER been owned, it was late 2010 and the car was considered used.

[Tank2001GT]

Oh funny how this is..Matt5112..I'm in the US, not Canadia or Cancrapistan, or whatever you called it. I hope your misuse of the words can and can't will get figured out. GM does take special orders for their vehicles. You can go on to GM website, pick your color, options, package, and order it, dumbass I can remember looking up a the Camaro, and choosing colors, packages, it gave me a price before taxes, and you could pick the dealership you wanted it sent to

"Its not like you can go into the dealership and ORDER that 17K malibu or anything."

Is it, "it's not like I can't go to the dealership" or is it how you typed it, maybe in Canadia they don't use apostrophe's. I dunno?

And to Sean GTP...if I can get these pics to load, see how much they look a like..I'm stumped..Monte has either looked like a 2 door Lumina, or a 2 door Impala..not the grand prix like you suggest. When the Monte Carlo came back in 1995, it LOOKED EXACTLY like a Lumina, only had 2 doors though. Grand Prix's for the most part, since 1996, have had a wider body, I think they even coined the term "Widetrack". Monte Carlo saw it's looks change in 2000, tried to stay away from looking like an Impala, then they did a restyle about the time the Impala did, and again..the front fascia looks like an Impala..not the grand prix as you suggest.

Click the Link. Google Image Result for http://hyundainavi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/2006-07_Chevrolet_Monte_Carlo.png
GP08.jpg
that's a Grand Prix ..I could not get the pictures to attach to this thread because the picture hosting is way too small......and you want to tell me that it looks like a Monte Carlo..seriously, are you the only one besides anyone else who has presented anything against what I have said, using a braille computer screen? Come on man, really? Yeah, same chassis...TOTALLY different looks IMO, but you argue what you wish. If the Monte Carlo were still around, it would look like the Impala, in a 2-door, good lord, someone shut this thread down..

And the case of the Mitsubishi, they are all crap, and should have had a "used" tag on them in the showroom with 0 miles

[Slick2500]

Good god stop with all the damn arguing.... Pontiac died because it was just a chevy with different badges, bumpers and sheet metal get over it /end thread.

[matt5112]

Good god stop with all the damn arguing.... Pontiac died because it was just a chevy with different badges, bumpers and sheet metal get over it /end thread.

Trolling is fun.

[redlinepontiac]

and widetrack slogan was used wayyy back in 50s

[Odi]