What The Hell Went Through GM's Mind That Made Them Kill Pontiac

[z3r0]

You know buick sells like hot cakes in China its their countries cadillac or Lincoln. They buy it cause it shows class and power apparently.

Android Fire

[Big Dave]

Gentlemen, gentlemen... Let's not go down this road again... Pontiac was, at its core, a small band of rogue performance lovers saddled with a big pile of people afraid to take a chance... The G5 was an attempt to put in distance from the Sunfire... The G6 was really an answer to a question no customer asked... The Impala killed the Grand Prix (think about it for a sec)... And the G8 is just plain useless until more of the assembly and costs can be dumped stateside... Then there's the "all talk" customer base that plagued Pontiac, and the G8 specifically... Everyone that claimed they wanted one ran out and bought some front wheel drive pile... That "5 grand is nothing for so much car" attitude evaporated the moment that monthly was calculated... But all is not lost...

See, when they internally began dismantling Pontiac, printers began furiously running off resumes... Most of those resumes quietly wandered over to Buick... Given that the SC 3800 is in all fairness a Buick motor, and that Buick has a stateside stigma of coming equipped with pill calendars in every new model, getting some of the Pontiac cast offs is very good news... So just sit back and give Buick a chance... They're practically Pontiac anyway... Seen the new Regal hmm?

[copgtp]

As far as I'm trackin', the OP doesn't even OWN a Pontiac................and on top of that, he walked away from a sweet looking GTP because he thought he smelled something burning after a test drive........

[SpeedGrid]

As far as I'm trackin', the OP doesn't even OWN a Pontiac................and on top of that, he walked away from a sweet looking GTP because he thought he smelled something burning after a test drive........

Sweet looking? Yeah it was but that was it. During the test drive the car began to make squeaky noises. After we pulled into the lot, I popped the hood and not only did not the car smell like burning, it began to steam. Underneath the car, it began to leak antifreeze and oil bad.

[z3r0]

if they found a nice holden cross over, like the ute they could badge over the caprice as an option to have a pontiac on the lot, they could make one or two performance based cars and badge them as pontiac and not a full line of vehicles

[LowRidinCrew]

**** it, bring holden to the us to shut us up. Toyota brought Scion over. The Scion xB is the Toyota BB in china.

[Bio248]

you think bringing the holden's over here will sell? look at how overpriced the G8 is. extrapolate that to an entire line of cars. NOT MAKING MONEY.

[Tank2001GT]

When I initially heard that they were killing off Pontiac, I was outraged. In my car and driver magazine it listed the Vibe as the only vehicle that would continue through I believe 2009, then it would die off. I have owned my 01 for seven years now, and I had an 04 for 2 years, and traded it off. I keep seeing on GM's web leaks that the G8 is gonna return as a re-badged Chevy Lumina SS...I would buy it in a heart beat. The only Cobalt worth having was the SS with the turbo, the G5 would have been a better car had they done a GXP, and put the turbo SS motor in it. The G6 had lower control arm problems in their early years...they just broke. The Vibe, got uglier...I like the Vibe GT with the manual, but they were rare, and expensive. And they only did those a couple of years early on. The HHR was their attempt to battle the PT Cruiser for "retro"...the SS looked good, but I heard they had brake problems. I think if GM wants to get back into the market heavy hitting again...Keep the Lumina SS coming to the market(it might give the Charger a run for its money), especially if they keep the big V8 in it. Kill the Impala, not a whole lot left to do with those...Buick has come out with a nice lineup of cars...Chevy needs to compete with Dodge and Ford more aggressively...heck, I even really like the new Taurus SHO. If they have to remake the Grand Prix, and call it an Impala...I think the sales would rise....Give the public an affordable sporty car that has a strong aftermarket part base...Perfect combo

[whitehead]

The New Impala looks pretty nice, so I dont know what your getting at there. The new Impala will also have the camaro's V-6 I believe which is a healthy 300 horsepower or more if I remember correctly. Lumina SS is just a pipe dream. I really do not see them hauling Holdens over just to make them Chevys, it would cost a lot. Instead they should try and build them in states or canada at a factory that is already up and running. In the long run it would save them some cash I would think. Cobalts are gay anyway I look at them, it looks horrible and even though the SS is faster than my car I would still much rather have my slow GP GT. The Vibe was just a Toyota or Mitsubishi I forget so thats pretty retarded, G6 was to old by the time Pontiac shut down. Not enough market for Pontiac anymore and even if they did start back up with a great line of cars nearly 98% of you would just say, "Hell yeah im going to go buy a new pontiac!" then go pick up some mods for your old GP and not buy a new one. So can we please bringing this topic back up lol?

[killain]

Well personally I to this day have no idea what the brass at the 14 floor of GM thought of by cutting the Pontiac/GMC suicide business design process. Oh sure they were under a lot of financial pressure, But which would you cut ? : A brand that has a thoroughly crazed following or keep a division that is replicated by Chevrolet ? I mean who was out to lunch on that one. But look back a little bit more, Who's idea was it to drop the Chevrolet 'Caprice' sedan? The only car that just about EVERY POLICE DEPARTMENT buys every year ? I don't think I ever saw a police department anywhere I went while I was working anywhere in the country who didn't buy the Chev. Caprice! Hell NYC used to buy 400 at a time, How can you lose on a single model selling by the thousands only to build more SUV's? And Pontiac was just blessed with the addition of the 'Holden' platform which is the greatest thing to happen to Pontiac division in years and just when they've got the wrinkles worked out, GM decides to cut the rope. But they kept the GMC division who's models are already sold under the Chevrolet banner ? John Wagoner Jr. was president and I don't think of one thing other than making his and all of his "Gang' packed with a Really "Golden parachutes". The idiot was two years younger then me and look at his rein at GM. the words Piss-Poor come to mind.

[mechguy]

I still don't feel very strongly about this argument.

What is really the consumer difference if GM produces a vehicle and brands it whatever they please? Still the same car.

Only thing that sticks with me is the retrograde orange dash illumination.

[RareGMFan]

Killain, if you bothered to read the responses in this thread prior to posting, you'd understand why your argument and opinions were defeated before you even stated them. What good is a "crazed following" for a brand if that crazed following consists of a bunch of broke-asses who can't afford a new car? They're not exactly going to impact sales in any way, shape or form. GM needed NEW car sales to stay afloat, and the Pontiac division was quite simply not doing that for them, where as Chevy is their most recognized division, and Buick and Cadillac sell very well globally (2:1 vs. US sales). Sorry, but nostalgia is not a legit currency in any country.

[Hippo Machine]

ik Chevy has a new car they're working on secwetly.

also the Chevy Caprice will most likely go public by 2015

[Tank2001GT]

Yeah, but I think a few of ya'll are missing the entire point. 04-08 Grand Prix's are as popular as they have ever been. Most car lots can't keep them, and are sending flyers to those who have had one a couple of years, trying to get the trade in. It was a HORRIBLE idea, and there is no one in their right or left mind that will convince me otherwise, that killing the ENTIRE Pontiac line was a great idea. They weren't losing money...if you look back...the US market for Buick and Cadillac had become quite stale, mainly because they had not produced anything worth buying for the current generation...especially anything that was affordable to a run of the mill blue collar worker. Look at what Chrysler and Dodge has done, created an AWESOME line up of cars that appeal to many generations...GM finally started making something that I would buy, if I were in the market for a new car..the Regal is nice...Cadillac finally going after the Gen X market with the ATS...lets face it the CTS wagon was a flop, there are only a handful of people who can afford the CTS-V, and there other models are all targeting the baby boomers...That's why the Grand Prix was such a good idea to keep it..I see all generations driving that car...not just one group. And as far as the Impala goes...again...it's gone stale...the only thing they did was round the car out a little...give it 3.5 or a 3.9, they did nothing special...it looks like the Chevy's version of the Cadillac DTS...which has moderately changed in 20 years..if at all. I think GM needs to do a test market on the Lumina...make it a $20,000 base price for like..the Lumina LT...and add the options from there...and who cares about the canadian versions. It would take nothing to rebadge the G8...they already have a few GM execs and test drivers out putting them through the paces..and I do believe I saw pictures of a reveal at a car lot in California. I know this is beating a dead horse, but c'mon...Pontiac was making GM a ton more money...but the global market made the decision for them..I don't give two turds about what China likes...let GM Global take care of that problem...GM USA needs to take in consideration their US market...find out what the people want...and it's NOT the Aveo...or the G1.5...whatever they called it. IMO...Chrysler and Ford are killing GM...Toyota and Honda put out the same reliable cars...no major remakes..except the civic..it's fugly...at this point, I would gladly buy a Taurus SHO or a Charger over any GM right now...no brainer..

And the caprice...looks like a fatter version of the Impala..again...no real imagination coming out of the GM design department

[stealthee]

Yeah, but I think a few of ya'll are missing the entire point.

No, you are missing the entire point. Pontiac was not selling well AT ALL. Buick sales are huge in other markets. GMC outsold Pontiac's entire line up, with selling a few trucks and SUVs. Pontiac was a dead man walking and was the easy choice.

[Tank2001GT]

Again...I could care less about the Global market, GMC only out sold Pontiac at the farmers market, Buick was STALE in the US, no matter their bent over position in China...it wasn't until recently that Buick has made a fighting comeback. I am not saying that GM should have killed Buick, but how can you account for the still GROWING popularity of the Grand Prix and G8...so anyone who thinks killing pontiac was a good idea is missing something. Its obvious rise in used sales should show...IN PHYSICAL NUMBERS...Pontiac still Lives..

I would kinda wager a hypothetical bet...put a pontiac badge on a GMC truck...it would have sold...

[I800C0LLECT]

I think the real issue is that the intent and purpose of pontiac came to life in the Grand Prix and G8. The other cars were awful. They would have had to rebuild the line up. The Grand Prix sold well but they were guessing that the W platform models would pick up the customers that were left out and the G8 was really a niche product because it wasn't marketed that well.

So ya...the spirit of pontiac was basically gone. I don't care if they call it a buick or GM, if they can build a brand based on excitement and solid engineering then that means they're relevant to a culture. GM and Chevy in general have missed the boat. They build daily drivers and the only reason people buy them is because they're "good enough" not because people can't wait to get into them. They basically market to people who don't care. I'd say that's a damn good reason they have a track record of "pos". Ford has been doing a good job of moving away from that over the last decade.

[stealthee]

Grand Prix and G8 popularity are only growing because they are USED and the price is dropping. If you seriously think that dealers sending fliers out "wanting" Grand Prix's mean they are popular then you really are stupid. That is nothing more than a ploy to get people in the dealership to buy new cars.

Anyone who thinks GM could have survived without killing Pontiac is missing something, a few brain cells.

[RareGMFan]

What stealth said. You're making an argument based on emotion, not logic. If you looked at the actual facts, they would eradicate your argument entirely. The '04 & up GPs sold very poorly as new cars, and regardless of what's going on in your tiny little neck of the woods (much of which I have no doubt is exaggerated and hearsay), on average, they aren't selling much (if any) better as used cars, either. The horrible resale value around me directly contradicts what you're claiming is going on around you. And again, used car sales do not mean anything to a company's survival. All that matters is how well the line up of new cars sell. G3, G5, G6, Grand Prix, Solstice, Torrent.....all very poor sales. The G8 never had a chance because Pontiac was already dead in the water.

Global sales don't matter to you?? Guess you're not going to be a business major. We LIVE in a global economy. Better get used to it, or get left behind. Even if you want to base your argument solely on America, I suggest you go out and randomly ask the members of the public what they think of Pontiac quality, and see what you get for an answer. There was such a horrible stigma and public perception about the brand that they scrapped the entire line up of nameplates trying to escape the attached perception to them. Yes, this includes your precious Grand Prix, which was renamed a G8 (8th gen GP). We as enthusiasts may put up with the crap these cars put us through, but the general public will NOT tolerate the cheap build quality and reliability problems most GMs (including the GP) present. And please don't come back with "I've never had a problem with my awesome GP!!!111". I can assure you there are a bunch of people who never had a problem with their Yugos, either. Guess what? Still a POS in general.

Let's put it this way. Pontiac sales were so bad in the early '00s that they were neck in neck in contention with Oldsmobile as to which division was going to get axed. Pontiac inched it out and survived, but they were hanging on by a thread ever since. It is not a surprise to anyone that understands GMs operations that Pontiac also got discontinued a few short years later. If you're thinking from a nostalgic position, yes it sucks. Hell, I'm not saying it doesn't piss me off too. But from a business standpoint, I understand it, and it makes perfect sense. Most enthusiasts on such message boards talk a good game, but were never going to do anything to help save the company.

Here, I'll prove my point very simply. How many enthusiasts in this thread who are really pissed off with GM for axing Pontiac, and think it was a really stupid business move are in a financial position to buy a brand new car PERIOD within the foreseeable future, let alone a Pontiac to do their part and help the company survive? Anyone?

[Tank2001GT]

You must have been typing from the "GM's Guide to Global Economy". I am not saying that the global economy should not have a factor into how business's go about axing, or rebuilding their brand to make it better. Are cadillac and buick known under those two entities overseas? Why is GM not doing a better job at bringing the amount of technological advancement to the United States...oh yeah, that's right...GLOBAL ECONOMY...some GM cars in Europe get 70 miles to the gallon..in US..37 mpg's? Spanky? The GLOBAL MARKET has been a burden at best, and has caused some of the worst decisions in history, its just bad business decisions.

As far as my Grand Prix...I never once said in ANY of my previous posts that I have not had any troubles..hell up until it blew intakes, I had only done maintenance..oil changes..replaced the sway bar, and links, brakes, front and back, and a cv shaft...in actual replaced parts I have spent a total of maybe...$700 in 7 years...I can handle the $100 a year for a used car. Here is something funny...if you take care of a car..it usually lasts longer. You are talking about the complaints from people who let noises go for 3 weeks, and when it breaks, they call it "a GM/dealer issue." People complaining all the time about the cost of parts, and repairs at dealerships...pick up a tool, fix it themselves..quit whining. Regardless of the amount of people who are on this thread that can afford to buy a new car is irrelevant, those people who can go write a check for a new car every six months are not involved in this web forum. Oldsmobile was brought into this? Ok, my thoughts on oldsmobile..they did not make anything worth a crap since...the 442? The delta 88, trying to pass for a lesabre, and the lesabre trying to compete with cadillac? The late eighties and early nineties were horrific years in terms of the quality of cars..paint, sheet metal(more rust than paint), interior pieces...lets face it..Oldsmobile was dead in 1980...their last attempt for it to survive was the Alero, and that was a cheaper, crap version of the Grand Am. I doubt Pontiac was in "inch" above oldsmobile...really?

Nice way to fit a Yugo into conversation by the way and the gremlin...along with the entire AMC line should still be alive as well.. From a business perspective..I think GM should have announced that they were taking Pontiac off the market for a few years...not kill it, stating that they needed to retool the cars that were keeping the company alive...G-LOBALLY..I hate that word...I feel it was a bad idea to ax pontiac..they have a huge fan base, and I know people who still have older grand prix's...and will drive a pontiac until they can't...it's those people who would have kept coming back to the Pontiac..making limited editions, or limit the amount of cars makes them more desirable anyway..case in point...more cars on the market...drives down used car values...simple math..that's why the G8 will still be $20,000 with 100,000 miles...I was never about saving the brand, cuz my opinion means dick anyhow...I bet impala sales are higher because the GP is gone...bet if they axed the Impala, and kept only the GP line...sales would be the same....and you are spouting just as much hearsay as the next guy...and myself...as well as anyone who has any type of opinion...which is kinda the basis behind the word OPINION....this is just my opinion against yours...neither of which amount to anything other than black text on a white screen...

This argument could go on for months..even years...fact remains, I feel how I feel about Pontiac, I feel it was a dumb move on GM's behalf...if they weren't selling..find out why, fix the problem...next time your kid gets a bad grade..remember, you can't ax him/her..