Down With Bush

Well that may be where you have me pegged wrong 'cause I dont just blindly follow what people say. I do check and research and try to learn what I can, I dont just swallow hook, line and sinker what the media or the President has to say.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again. Everyone wants to blame the President and they are the ones that are being led in my opinion as they seem to completely ignore that the fact that congress and the senate were all privy to any intelligence about the run up to the war and the President just doesnt sign document and carry out actions, particularly with regards to any covert or counter intelligence actions. There are others involved but most just shut their eyes to that and instead of saying lets get everyone that was involved, if they feel it is wrong, lets just blame the President.

I hate to see him go, but in a way I will be glad to see him leave office so that the next President can be swore in and let them see that they too have to sign the same documents, make the same tough deciscions and see if they scrutinze them in the same manner or if they get caught up in a popularity movement and everything is just peachy.

I'm what's wrong with this country???

I'm sorry but if the founders of this nation hadn't stood up against the tyranny they experienced on behalf of the English we would not be here. As for their reason why they declared independence, (among other things) it was to be free from the corrupt banking system they had in England at the time. This country was built on an idea of freedom, and independence from the ruling class. I am a patriot. Im not just tossing around liberal b.s. there is a movement founded by structural engineers and architects who look at these attacks and say, wait a minute... These towers were stronger than that.

To you sir i say "Good Day"

As for the 9/11 topic, i will cease to post my beliefs as i see it may create a threat for my life from some of the more heavily-armed folks in this forum. But you should relize that i'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist who believes anything that im told, I actually work for one of the biggest aerospace corporations in america. However, when i see the footage of those towers falling (the first steel buildings to ever collapse due to fire in the history of high-rise buildings) I believe it is my patriotic duty to seek the truth. Don't be satisfied with the first explanation your given. Do your own research before you begin bashing an honest person's ideas.

oh here we go.......

I have some popcorn in the microwave...... back in 5...

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

I'm what's wrong with this country???

I actually work for one of the biggest aerospace corporations in america.

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Lockheed Martin?:th_shakinghead1:

Woodward Governor?:th_shakinghead1:

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

I'm what's wrong with this country???

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Whats wrong with this country is people that try and spread conspiracies as if they were fact. You said to not accept what you are told or the first explanation. Would this not also include yours? As I mentioned earlier, Ive seen this fable before and I looked into as best I can and I simply do not buy it. To me its just another story that someone concocted that had too much time on their hands and had serious trust issues. Do you know the shear number of people it would take to pull something like this off? And you expect me to believe they not only got it done, timed it so well, killed over 3000 over their own people and then kept silent about it?

I could say the sky is green and could easily find a few hundred perhaps a few thousand people that I could convince its true. After all, what is blue but a name we gave to a certain wavelength of light. Just because you have a few that have swallowed your story does not make it the truth.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

I'm sorry but if the founders of this nation hadn't stood up against the tyranny they experienced on behalf of the English we would not be here. As for their reason why they declared independence, (among other things) it was to be free from the corrupt banking system they had in England at the time. This country was built on an idea of freedom, and independence from the ruling class. I am a patriot. Im not just tossing around liberal b.s. there is a movement founded by structural engineers and architects who look at these attacks and say, wait a minute... These towers were stronger than that.

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This country was certainly built on the ideas you mentioned. Which is exactly why you have the right to make the statements, however absurd I may consider them, that you do. And as insanely preposterous as they are I would still defend your right to do so today and did as much for five years of my life. Just because you are educated in structural engineering does not make yours or any of your followers opinions or assessments correct.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

To you sir i say "Good Day"

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I say Good Day to you as well, its this kind of poisonous talk that gives people the sense that no one can be trusted that that just leads to more people convincing themselves of these ludicrous conspiracies.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

As for the 9/11 topic, i will cease to post my beliefs as i see it may create a threat for my life from some of the more heavily-armed folks in this forum.

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This is exactly what I mean. Has anyone threatened you here? If so, tell me and I will deal with it including calling the authorities personally. Do you perceive people that do not swallow your story whole as threats?

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

But you should relize that i'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist who believes anything that im told, I actually work for one of the biggest aerospace corporations in america. However, when i see the footage of those towers falling (the first steel buildings to ever collapse due to fire in the history of high-rise buildings) I believe it is my patriotic duty to seek the truth. Don't be satisfied with the first explanation your given. Do your own research before you begin bashing an honest person's ideas.

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I work for one of the largest phone companies in America, what does that have to do with anything? Maybe I can speed dial a little faster, I dunno.

There are also some other firsts you are failing to mention.

1. No other building in the country, steel building has been hit by a jet liner moving at 500 mph.
2. No other steel high rise building has had its steel columns or vertical load columns sheared off.
3. No steel high rise building has been left to burn for some 7+ hours

Oh, wait, Im sorry, did I do some research and not accept your first version of the story. Geee, am I now too a threat? I guess thats what having a brain and common sense does when you actually use it.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

I'm what's wrong with this country???

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I would not say you are what is wrong with our Country. As I said in my statement the topic of conspiracies into the 9/11 incidents hits many people on a deep emotional and personal level. You are given your rights to speak your mind and voice your opinions, but sometimes there are limits to how much people can take or maybe that are willing to take in regards to a certain event.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

I'm sorry but if the founders of this nation hadn't stood up against the tyranny they experienced on behalf of the English we would not be here. As for their reason why they declared independence, (among other things) it was to be free from the corrupt banking system they had in England at the time. This country was built on an idea of freedom, and independence from the ruling class.

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You are quite right about our Country's hertiage. You have no arugment from me on that.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

I am a patriot.

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I am afraid this comment can be twisted in so many ways. I know what you are saying, but when you look at people like the Timothy McVay's and others who have committed teroristic acts against our very own country, they viewed themselves as "patriots" as well. But in the worst way imaginable. The Muslim extremists who committed these acts viewed themselves as Ala's instrument of fighting the infidels, we the people of the United States. And people of their country, and other muslim countries viewed their acts almost as if they were patriots for their cause. This why I think patriotism can be mistaken at many levels.

I will never doubt your patriotism, but some of us who have weathered through the tragedy of 9/11 and have suffered losses and emotional distress over that day and the days following will have very different views on someone who thinks that this was a US lead conspricay to get our country into a war.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

Im not just tossing around liberal b.s. there is a movement founded by structural engineers and architects who look at these attacks and say, wait a minute... These towers were stronger than that.

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This is the heart of a very sore topic. NO DOUBT! While I can appreciate your point of view, you have to ask yourself, why aren't there congressional hearings on such a topic, why aren't there better leads to suggest such things happened? We can sit here for the next 20 years and debate how structurally sound metal is and how a plane fully loaded with jet fuel could melt metal on a building that was meant to withstand an impact from a much smaller commercial airliner be able to cause the tragedy we all witness countness times over and over again on live TV and replays every 5 seconds on national TV.

I have heard the theories about men with suitcases entering the Towers weeks before the events of 9/11 and I have heard the controlled demolition theories to abnasuism. While some of that may seem phesable*, I sincerely doubt our own Country would committe such ungodly acts upon its own Country. Is our Country at fault for some of the events that lead up to 9/11? I would have to say YES.

Yes they are guilty of failing to see the warning signs and missed transmitions of the "chatter" in the terrorist community, yes they are guilty for failing to listen to the FBI offical who had credible information that an attack was imment. Those are certainly breakdowns in our system, and the Government is trying to fix them.

Will we ever be a 100% safe and terror free Country? The simple answer is NO! But can we make our Country safer? Another simple answer is YES! You see people crying about their civil liberties being violated when the Government wants to tap their phone lines IF they are a suspected terrorist. To me, I say let them tap all the dang phones! Why? Cause if you are only talking to your Aunt Suzie about a cooking recipe or if you and your girlfriend are having a personal converation, and not planning a terrorist attack? What do you really have to fear? If you are an upstanding member of the community and are NOT planning actions that might harm this Country in any way? What do you really have to worried about?

I know many would and will debate this till our dying days. But if that is a part of making our Country safer? Then I am all for it. And even if the Goverment does not tap ALL the phones in the US, at least the fear or the potential to discover leads through the tapping would deter some would be terrorist, I am all for it. Sometimes it is fear of not knowing if someone is being monitored or watched that will prevent some crimes from happening.

People have to understand, we have evolved over the years in technology. No longer do you have someone at a switchboard connecting phone calls on a punchboard. We are in an electronics era, where Cell phones rule our lives, and TV baby sits our children. Things have changed since the early days of our Country. And better means of survaliance must be created to keep up with the growing threats of terror in our Country.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

As for the 9/11 topic, i will cease to post my beliefs as i see it may create a threat for my life from some of the more heavily-armed folks in this forum.

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Am I missing something here? I did not recall anyone threatening your life? Or unless something happened outside of this thread? If that is the case? You should report it and have it dealt with. No one should be threatened because of their beliefs. Even if they differ from someone else's.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

But you should relize that i'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist who believes anything that im told

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While I will not say you are crazy, you have your rights to believe in whatever you wish to believe. But when almost all theories of these people have been debunked time and time again, it still does not sit well with a lot of people as I mentioned above. The controlled charge theory I can see what they say when you see the building collapse upon itself, but people seem to forget a simple fact. The building was severed, not in half mind you, but pretty darn close. And you have planes FULL of highly volitale jet fuel that is one of the highest burning properties known to man soaking through floor after floor melting poor insulated metal that lay beneath.

And once that metal was melted away, the weight of the building could not withstand the weight of the building still resting above it. By shear luck and God's grace, some would say, the towers simply collapsed on themselves. Had they of fallen to the left or to the right? We would have had WAY MORE deaths that day. Conspriacy theorist will say it was made or done that way for affect. Fine they can go with that theory. IF that is the case? Then I think we could have done something smaller and still had the same impact.

If our Government was somehow involved in such a travisity? Then they will pay for their sins when they die. But for people who think Dick or George sat in some dark bunker hashing this out are watching to many X-Files episodes. Of course that is my opinion, and my opinion may differ from you and others out there. That is what makes our Country so great. We have the freedom to debate and disbelieve and believe in whatever we want.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

However, when i see the footage of those towers falling (the first steel buildings to ever collapse due to fire in the history of high-rise buildings) I believe it is my patriotic duty to seek the truth. Don't be satisfied with the first explanation your given. Do your own research before you begin bashing an honest person's ideas.

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I am not going to sit here and bash your ideas, I will debate your ideas and try and not let my personal feelings over take my words. Others sometimes are not able to seperate those emotions from their words and they can come across very harsh. I can understand that and have been on both sides of the fence. I worked as a Police Officer for eight years and I have seen those very things you mentioned.

You mention its "my patriotic duty to seek the truth." I can certainly respect that, but when you have 3/4 of the population and more than 3/4 of the architects in the US and the world for that matter debunking a lot of theorists beliefs about what actually happened during 9/11, it is MY belief that it happened the way it did. It was not grand coverup or someone's grand design on world domination. It was a series of events that will forever change our lives and the way we live. We can longer rest easy knowing we are the safest Country in the world.

Sure we have never been invaded, not like Canada or Mexico can really mount any kind of Military assault on the US anyways :rolleyes: But we know now as a Nation we are vulnerable. We have weaknesses and those weaknesses need to be addressed. And IF our very own Government was involved in something so horrible as 9/11 was? Do you think our news media would let it pass? I mean look at all what you see on the TV news. Do you not think by now some reporter or investigative journalist would have unearthed something by now? Nothing can be hidden forever, and sooner or later, if there is a truth to be told, it will be discovered.

Maybe I want to be a blind sheep and follow the herd. Maybe I do not wish to think our Government could be capiable of such horrific acts, but I rest in the belief our Country and Government is here for the greater good, not the greater evil. While I may disagree on paths our Country has taken over the years, I am still proud to say I am an American. And I will say for anyone who thinks our Country is a great evil oppressor, needs to go live in Iraq or Iran and really see what evil and oppression is truly about. We have it good here in the United States of America. And I would like to see it stay that way for the many generations that will follow us.


Ok I am going to go soak my fingers now............ Thanks for listening :)

LOL dang it Syn!!! Your mega post beat my mega post :D

LOL. I guess its pretty evident I am not a huge conspiracy theorist. While I wont say our government is not capable of conspiracies, to believe one on this scale with so much evidence to the contrary, well I'll just leave it there.

:th_popcorn:

I remember seeing the raw video footage. You couldn't even begin to convince me that it was a conspiracy of the government, or that it didn't happen.

500,000 tones of concrete and steel pretty much crush anything into dust. Steel weakens when it gets hot. Plain and simple. You don't need to be a mechanical engineer to determine on your own that a building can't withstand a fully loaded jet liner crashing into it without collapsing.

And if you think we're gonna e-thug you and cap you over here from an argument....you've got more things that will worry you in your everyday life.

Well put.

I don't agree with everything he says or does, but Bush is okay by me. He does his job. Personally, I wouldn't want it. Each administration has the unfortunate duty to clean up the previous administration's mess. To have to meet the demands of many conflicting sides, I would be forced to stab someone in the head with my letter opener.

What I can't stand, however, are people who don't even vote just making blanket statements like "Bush sucks" or whatever. One of my best friends is like that. She will say something like that and then can't even give an example of something that he has done completely on his own to back it up. Then to top it off, she doesn't even vote.

I don't blame 90% of what is wrong with the country on the politicians. I blame it on the media. I don't even watch the news anymore because each network is owned by some corporation with its own corporate agenda. So, maybe 1% of what is reported is the actual truth. It used to be when they taught news journalism they taught to be objective and to report the facts with an unbiased opinion. Now, you are taught how to make money and to market your story for the highest bidder. For example, ABC is owned by Disney. Disney owns ESPN, Touchstone, Pixar, Miramax, Lifetime, A&E, The History Channel, Biography and forty plus radio stations. So, that very quickly means that little Emily falling into some well chasing a ball is getting on the news and then that gets turned into oh my god the mom wasn't watching her close enough and she should be in jail so let's charge her with whatever we can concoct and then we'll turn her best friend's cousin's wife's dog life story into some made for movie because the dog just happened to be chasing the same damn ball into the well and he is stuck down there, too. And that is just one example. Talk about propaganda.

You know if the general public can formulate bad opinions from not being given all of the correct information, imagine what that guy's job is like. I feel sorry for anyone in his shoes, really.

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Originally Posted by mlambert

I don't agree with everything he says or does, but Bush is okay by me. He does his job. Personally, I wouldn't want it. Each administration has the unfortunate duty to clean up the previous administration's mess. To have to meet the demands of many conflicting sides, I would be forced to stab someone in the head with my letter opener.

What I can't stand, however, are people who don't even vote just making blanket statements like "Bush sucks" or whatever. One of my best friends is like that. She will say something like that and then can't even give an example of something that he has done completely on his own to back it up. Then to top it off, she doesn't even vote.

I don't blame 90% of what is wrong with the country on the politicians. I blame it on the media. I don't even watch the news anymore because each network is owned by some corporation with its own corporate agenda. So, maybe 1% of what is reported is the actual truth. It used to be when they taught news journalism they taught to be objective and to report the facts with an unbiased opinion. Now, you are taught how to make money and to market your story for the highest bidder. For example, ABC is owned by Disney. Disney owns ESPN, Touchstone, Pixar, Miramax, Lifetime, A&E, The History Channel, Biography and forty plus radio stations. So, that very quickly means that little Emily falling into some well chasing a ball is getting on the news and then that gets turned into oh my god the mom wasn't watching her close enough and she should be in jail so let's charge her with whatever we can concoct and then we'll turn her best friend's cousin's wife's dog life story into some made for movie because the dog just happened to be chasing the same damn ball into the well and he is stuck down there, too. And that is just one example. Talk about propaganda.

You know if the general public can formulate bad opinions from not being given all of the correct information, imagine what that guy's job is like. I feel sorry for anyone in his shoes, really.

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I do love a good debate, and this looks like a very heated one. We all seem to be able to voice our opinions very efficiently. and im glad that i am among people who will listen to what i have to say, or at least scan over it, and then without being immature or naive can spit back a very well written, mild manner reply.


"I say Good Day to you as well, its this kind of poisonous talk that gives people the sense that no one can be trusted that that just leads to more people convincing themselves of these ludicrous conspiracies."

- thats how i feel, but i do not feel like it is a "ludicrous conspriracy" when you observe the presentations that put forth a very professional thesis. the problem is that people don't want to relive that terrible day. that most poeple would rather say, what happened happened and thats that.

If we as a nation of regular joes fail to wake up i think there may very well be another World war, or worse, whatever that may be. The people who are making the big decisions in our federal government dont give a f*ck about the people on the other side of the globe who die for a belief in a god. as long as we continue to expand and profit. And i do believe that they (and us too as a result) will "pay" for their "sins". we are living in north america, which once was home to the tribesman who were so brutally slaughtered in the name of economic and political explansion. Whose lifestyles were so in tune with nature, we as "civilized" man regarded it with the most horror.

What decade will mankind realize that life isn't about whoever dies with the most **** wins, and that the materialistic culture we are immersed in when we're born does not equate to a better life? When will thew people stand up and say enough is enough, we have enough ****, and now lets just live by the land? I'll start the bidding at the year 2099 or better yet 3001.

what's wrong with this country in my humble opinion is that there are not enough people who will speak of distrust toward the powers that be, and that the terrible things that happened (not only on 9-11) will forever be regarded as taboo because of the angst and emotion it stirs up. we as a nation will continue to grow but for how long. after all, all great civilizations came to an end.

"The seasons change and things get strange.
Then once and awhile they get rearranged, and it seems insane
Until the day your brain becomes one with the eternal main frame.

Question everything.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

take it or leave it.

yea the innocent men and women on that plane and in the buildings also the firemen and women deffinately didnt diserve that from the stupid towelhead terrorists i hope they are rotting in hell.

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Originally Posted by GTPJOE90

yea the innocent men and women on that plane and in the buildings also the firemen and women deffinately didnt diserve that from the stupid towelhead terrorists i hope they are rotting in hell.

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You can't call them towelheads anymore. They got all pi$$ed off because they say it's a sheet and not a towel. So from now one we have to call them little sheetheads.

I dont personally have a problem reliving the events if it helps in some way, either preventing such a thing from happening again. Though I do agree with you on the point that there are many who would rather not for the emotions and such it would stir up for them.

As for listening to the presentations, I have done that as well since I first learned of this particular conspiracy theory and I still think it is a very poisonous discussion. I feel the most conspiracy theories are of that nature as most of them are not founded in fact or take snippets of truth and go off on wild tangents and stretch those truths to wildly perverted distortions.

I understand you know nothing about me, but I think anyone that does know me will tell you I have absolutely NO problem telling someone I think they are lying whether you are a friend or a stranger. Ive even been dingged for as much at work a couple of times. I have little respect for such actions under any circumstance.

Ive read about the theories on the use of thermite, Ive read over the mathematical calculations and the free fall theories and so on. And everything I have read counter to the NIST account has been made up of partial facts stretched in unbelievable ways. And I come back to the fact that the number of people that would be needed to carry out the operation you theorize, the logistics, is staggering and I am to believe not one of them had a conscience? That fact ALONE, aside everything else really puts an end to any chance of your conspiracy theory ever seeming factual. To say nothing of the fact that all that alleged thermite and explosives being moved and or used without being noticed or questioned or even uncovered. We're talking scales of which would boggle the mind. Maybe the guy on the grassy noll pulled this one off too, who knows.

The conspiracy theorist also seem to fail to take into account the very design of the twin towers. The twin towers were unique in their design and it seems that gets skipped over as well. The fact they were not built with the traditional web design seems to not be a consideration for some reason with the conspiracy theorists.

Oh well, I could quite literally go on for hours I suppose but I wont at this point. I have other things I need to do.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

very well written, mild manner reply.

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Minus the huge run on sentence. If my fifth grade English teacher saw that, he would shoot me.

Hahaha

Sorry. Finally installed my new little rack and bench in the house. With no instructions, which I'm sure would've been in Japanese anyway. Needed to take a little break and log in here...

Hope you guys are having a lovely evening.

Peace.

Hey reptile..... could I have some of that popcorn?

Yes, synthetic shield, the twin towers were structurally different than any before. But, as you may recall building seven fell also- it wasn't due to a commercial airliner slamming into it, but rather simply because of fire. The dang thing fell straight down! into it's own footprint. Some may say that is by the grace of god, but if you have ever seen a controlled demolition of a similar building you will see the same characteristics that building 7 shows- crimping in the middle, with burst of (thermite) smoke coming out, and a straight down plummet.

And, to top it off, the policemen were warning people- the buildings about to collapse; move outta the way. before it showed signs of the structural integrity fading.

And NORAD was running a "simulated terrorist attack" on the same day? Claiming they didn't know if the threats were real or part of a drill seems like a lame excuse to not go out and shoot down some planes. Afterall, i would imagine that to be a jet fighter-pilot's wet dream come true.

It seems to me there are way too many coincidences happening on that date.

Even Bush senior made a speach about the coming of the New World Order on that same date a decade before.

How many people would it take to pull off such a grand scheme, with all its alibis carefully worked out, all bases covered, to plant some explosives inside those three buildings- my guess is not very many, especially if it's prolonged over period of time.

Now i understand your argument about conscience, and how you could find it impossble for a group of people to be so lacking of it. Well, if the elite of this country are really so possesed by evil as they are made out to be, i wouldn't find it hard for them to do such a thing without remorse. If they really are the devil's minions I would imagine they'd get quite a kick out of it. As sick as it is.

Why end the discussion now, its just getting good.

Oh boy!! I get another swing at this :)

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

Yes, synthetic shield, the twin towers were structurally different than any before. But, as you may recall building seven fell also- it wasn't due to a commercial airliner slamming into it, but rather simply because of fire. The dang thing fell straight down! Into its own footprint.

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You have to take into account that the building was already weakened by the fall of the towers. Can you imagine the seismic activity at ground zero? I am sure it was quite earth shaking. I don’t dare claim to be an expert on such things, but you have to take into account that the tremors caused by the fall of the towers also added to the structural weakening of the other building.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

Some may say that is by the grace of god

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I said that :)

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

if you have ever seen a controlled demolition of a similar building you will see the same characteristics that building 7 shows- crimping in the middle, with burst of (thermite) smoke coming out, and a straight down plummet.

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Yes I have seen control demos before. And I know what you are talking about here. But when you think about all that weight sitting above the parts of the towers that were basically severed by the planes with their fuel tanks fully loaded with highly flammable jet fuel leaking all down the building's inner structure. It was only a matter or time before those inner supports weakened and gave way thus causing the building to basically fall upon itself.

IF and that is a BIG IF one of the planes merely cut into a section of the building and NOT severing its internal structure, then POSSIBLY the weight of the remaining tower above that break in the building would have caused it to tilt and fall sideways. But pilots were lucky to have struck in the heart of both towers central core. (I hate using the term “lucky” but it was the only word I could come up with.) If you think about it seriously, the plane basically cut the towers into two separate pieces. And the top piece I am sure weighed a TON, and the structure below holding that top up was weakening by the minute cause of the jet fuel melting the internal structure of the tower beneath.

It was only a matter of time before the lower portion became so weak it could no longer hold up the upper part of the tower bearing down on itself. And if you would have watched many of the different shows on those towers were made, they were not your typical construction project. Each floor was basically self contained. Like stacking blocks on top of one another. They were only held together by the outside “fencing” of steel girders that kept the building together. So when the top of the tower finally gave way and fell INTO the lower portion, it just collapsed upon itself like a series of dominos.

And those puffs of smoke you so like to point out are coming from the building falling upon itself. Not from some explosive charge as many theorists like to point out. OF COURSE there is going to be dust and debris exploding outward when you have hundreds and hundreds of tons of steel and concrete crashing in on itself. That is inevitable. To think otherwise, you are just fooling yourself. People will see what they want to see. People said they saw images of Satan or some other ominous creature in one of the smoke clouds after the planes hit the buildings. This smoke/discharge theory runs in the same vain as that.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

And, to top it off, the policemen were warning people- the buildings about to collapse; move outta the way. before it showed signs of the structural integrity fading.

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So now you are saying the NYPD was in on this whole thing? Come on man! That really is truly a STRETCH beyond reason! I am sure the NYPD was thinking…..Yeah let’s get back while the NYFD and the Port Authority run up into the building knowing its about to collapse. That is simply ludicrous!!! If you want to really get people angry over a post? That one quote right there is enough to incense any common thinking person! Almost including me.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

And NORAD was running a "simulated terrorist attack" on the same day? Claiming they didn't know if the threats were real or part of a drill seems like a lame excuse to not go out and shoot down some planes. After all, i would imagine that to be a jet fighter-pilot's wet dream come true.

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I cannot honestly comment on that part. I do not really recall all that stuff that happened that lead to the fighters not being advised to engage enemy targets. I will have to look at that one more closely before I can honestly comment on it.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

Even Bush senior made a speach about the coming of the New World Order on that same date a decade before.

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What President or Dictator or even rock bands have not mentioned or talked about some kind of new world order? IF that was the case, wouldn’t that have happened already? I mean we could have blamed Canada for letting in those terrorists into our country and gone to war with them, and then also blame Mexico for letting their boarders lay open for anyone to cross into the US and then we can go bomb them? Funny how that has not happened yet.

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Originally Posted by Dr.Sherman

How many people would it take to pull off such a grand scheme, with all its alibis carefully worked out, all bases covered, to plant some explosives inside those three buildings- my guess is not very many, especially if it's prolonged over period of time. Now i understand your argument about conscience, and how you could find it impossible for a group of people to be so lacking of it. Well, if the elite of this country are really so possessed by evil as they are made out to be, i wouldn't find it hard for them to do such a thing without remorse. If they really are the devil's minions I would imagine they'd get quite a kick out of it. As sick as it is.

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As I have said before in my other post, wouldn’t you think that some reporter or investigative journalist would have uncovered something by now? I mean come on, this was a MASSIVE planning operation. Do you not think someone would have said something or leaked something by now? I think any rationally thinking person would agree with that thought. You look at the way our national media covers all sorts of events and happenings and are able to unearth information that was thought buried forever. Only to be uncovered for all to see what actually happened. Not even our CIA or Dick Chaney could pull off something so massive and coordinated within our own boarders. This attacks and planning took place off US soil. Do you honestly think the US Government or some SUPER SECRET branch of the military thought this up? As I said before, people that fall into this trap, watch to may X Files episodes.

Now if information came out that was proven without a reasonable doubt that our own Government was behind this attack? I would be all for hanging them. I know our Government is capable of doing unthinkable acts at times, but this one is TRULY the most unthinkable ever!! I know IF I was a part of such a grand design as this? I would never be able to sleep again. And eating a bullet would be the only way out of that nightmare! So once again I sincerely doubt that is the case here!

I sincerely doubt there are enough evil minions out there in the US to pull such a feat as we saw that day. I am sure around the US you could find them, but to recruit them and then train them and tell them what they are about to do to their own people is so highly unbelievable.

Aaron Russo. He has spoken up about the things he was told would happen on that day. He has made movies about it trying to spread the word. Why doesn't he get any press attention? Gee, I wonder, probably because were not supposed to know about this stuff.

Look this man up, he is a real activist with a real desire to inform people of the great deception they have witnessed.

It's funny that we haven't invaded Canada? They're already an ally and they havent shown any signs of malice towards the US. Same goes for Mexico, But it's alright, we'll all be united under the banner of the North American Union fairly soon. BTW have yo uheard about the massive superhighway thats being built? Ten lanes stretching through the heart of the us up to canada and down to mexico. This is real stuff. Look into it.

Bush Administration Quietly Plans NAFTA Super Highway - HUMAN EVENTS

YouTube - Aaron Russo, NWO, Rockefeller - 9/11 Inside Job Debunkers?