The '00 Grand Prix I just bought has a coolant in the upper intake, and it was Dex Cool tha was in the radiator. I'm going to get it fixed with the reinforced intake from ZZP; guess I'll save all my receipts and see if I can get a refund on it.
Printable View
The '00 Grand Prix I just bought has a coolant in the upper intake, and it was Dex Cool tha was in the radiator. I'm going to get it fixed with the reinforced intake from ZZP; guess I'll save all my receipts and see if I can get a refund on it.
dexcool> plastic intakes....
toasty> useless information
GTP> GT
Turbo> SC
Summer> winter
oh....wait. that was too much huh?
does not GM put those seal tabs in the cooling system from the factory?Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptile
I also dont think its all the stuff people put in their cooling systems as, generally speaking, people are pretty neglectful of their cooling systems. Im sure adding something to fix a leak doesnt help, I agree with you there as there is virtually no way to know if there will be a chemistry conflict in the composition of the products, but I dont think its a leading cause.
Dex Cool itself may not be a 'bad' product so much as it is a bad combo. A high maintenance product (Despite its label) coupled with one system in a car that gets very little attention by most owners.
One of the major things seems to be Dex-Cools sensitivity to air. And then the mentioning of contaminants in a virtually closed system. I would like to know how, in a virtually closed system, I would be responsible for contaminants. Ive pulled radiator caps off extremely low mileage vehicles (we're talking less than a year old) and there had been dex sludge in quite abundance on them.
Im not picking Reptile, just kinda contesting what you are saying because I see things a bit differently. You certainly have an inside track on things. But the information I have read over the years certainly doesnt say that DexCool is a 'bad' product but it is far from being as good or equivalent to anything else out there.
I agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptile
Interesting to me that I've not run into one GM mechnic that has flushed their Dex for green. I'm sure there are some but I've not met them yet.
Well, here's the deal Scotty.....and I know that this article mentions fleet vehicles.
Fleet owned cars/trucks run a strict maintenance schedule, they check things regularly, change fluids at a certain interval etc. The bottom line is....if they don't take care of their stuff, they lose hundreds to thousands of dollars per day.
Joe Blow who buys a new car, and runs it without barely changing the oil every 10,000 miles and who never checks anything else just because the label on the bottle says that you can run something for 100,000 miles is ignorant at best. Just because Dex says just that, doesn't mean it will...just like the platinum/iridium plugs. You have to check your stuff. It basically boils down to just being an "extended life" coolant. It simply means that if you change your green at 30k miles, then you might go 50k miles on the extended life. It's not perfect, but in 10 years at this dealership, I have never seen Dex sludge on it's own.
They "used" to put a type of stop leak in as a preventative thing. If you talk to any old school engine builder he will tell you the same thing. You build an engine, and you "run in" an engine. Meaning that after you have a few warm up cycles...you re-check your gasket surfaces. When things warm up, things shrink. The benefit of the newer style gaskets that GM has put out in the last very few years is that the silicone seals tend to hold their normal size, pretty much eliminating having to go back over things like intake gaskets. I still do this after I put my intake gaskets and VC gaskets on...just for peace of mind.
It all still boils down to maintenance! I've personally had 4 Dex filled vehicles since 98....put well over 100k miles on all of them except for my GTP. I have never had any issue with anything other than not changing my plugs in a Grand am I had...I did that at 70 k miles, and they were pretty much toast.
Question me if you will, but you can't argue with experience....and I'm sure there are plenty of people who can speak from their own experience.
OK, I'm done with my run on's. :th_lipssealed1:
I see your point completely. However, if I have to change the coolant at 50k to keep in good shape, then why label it as a 100k coolant. I agree with you on the point of 100k plugs too. Ive done maintenance on more cars than I care to count and I cant begin to tell you how many platinum plugs I have pulled that were in horrible shape long before the 100k. So I do understand what you are saying.
With regards to experience, my wifes GA had the sludge on the radiator cap and that is despite having it flushed on a regular basis, probably every other year or so. She never drove that much her maintenance schedule was more time based than mileage based. My GP had the same issue and we all the know the story with it. I have serviced customer vehicles, many, not all, but many have had the same sludge build up on the radiator cap. But I have yet to see one green, yellow or red coolant based vehicle with this issue.
So I wont argue experience but ours have been basically polar opposites.
I've gotta say that I haven't seen the green stuff sludge up as well...BUT I have seen severe corrosion because of the protective properties breaking down.
Now that I typed that....for some reason I kind of remember reading up that Dex-Cool was a "self destructing" type of coolant. Giving signs of breaking down before other engine damage can occur. I'll have to see if I can dig up something on this.
There are two major classes of coolant that I am aware of. OAT (Organic Acid Technology) and HOAT (Hybrid Organic Acid Technology). I believe, dont quote me, DexCool is a HOAT, and I have often wondered if it was possibly the formulation that makes it a HOAT that is the issue. As far as I know the green ethelyne glycol is a OAT coolant.
That said, I do not know what the yellow (Ford) and Red (Toyota and others) coolants are. They may well be HOAT's but Im pretty sure they are formulated differently and what level of silicates they have I dont know either. I also have not had much chance to look into the G-05 coolants either.
I stand corrected, I went and looked at my info again and DexCool is a OAT coolant. What DexCool does differently from other OAT coolants is that it does not contain coolants and I believe reduced potassium if not completely eliminated.
I know prior to switching out the Dex Cool in the GP, my oil analysis showed virtually no potassium (high sodium coupled with potassium usually indicates a coolant leak) though I knew for fact I had a coolant leak from the LIM. As soon as I switched from Dex Cool to a green coolant my potassium skyrocketed in the oil analysis giving the final confirmation that there was a coolant leak.
So if I were a gambling person, I would say there is something in the formulation of DexCool that causes that sludge and the reason its not seen in all vehicles I would bet could be traced to metals used in the coolant system and engine, i.e. iron block and heads vs. aluminum. Just a thought.
I went down a long line of used Fleet vehicles mostly Impalas and a coupe of GP with varying mileage and looked at their cooling systems (overflow bottles and radiator caps). All of them had sealing tab "sludge", but none had that redish rusty looking stuff the guy with the 96 blazer (originator of the Dex Internet postings IIRC) posted about seeing.
I'll look at my sons 99 GTP this afternoon to see what his radiator cap looks like. I know his car has had nothing but Dex, since we bought the car from the original owner and I saw his maintenance records.
I've personally seen and changed 2 sets of head gaskets on L36's one in a 98 bonne and a 99 gp gt that were eaten away by dex cool thats what makes me hate it from experience and seeing what it does. And on the gp gt it had to have a near rear head. as well
I want pics of these dexcool eaten heads, maybe i would believe this on a 3.1 or 3.4 w/ the aluminum heads, but with the cast iron of our 3.8 I call B.S. on your ruined head claim
and ruined head gaskets are different than eaten heads
Geeee, go figure. Someone else that doesnt buy it. Maybe I wasnt so crazy after all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 19SE92
---- but i thought it ate the heads, not the gaskets???
:th_wtf:
I always use the any color stuff, and never had a problem, I have a friend who currently works at the busiest GM dealer in Mobile, and he says they rarely get a dex cool related issue anymore (I believe they changed the formula but have no proof of it)
Just my personal experience... Kind of ashamed to admit it but I've had terrible habits with regards to maintaining my coolant system.
Never been flushed, never been cleaned in any way. In fact the only things Ive ever done is swap T-stats several times without purging the air afterwards (tried to purge the air the first time, didn't notice any air coming out so said F'k it) Just topped it off with the right kinda water.
Going on 8-years an 120K miles an its as just as effective at keep temps down as it was when it was new. Hasn't turned into anything nor has it eaten anything. In fact when I installed the IC I changed the intake gaskets over to the metal 04+ ones but the old ones looked fine, if I didn't already have replacements ready there really wasn't even any need to do that. Not only that the front mount in front of the radiator... didn't raise temps more then a hair if at all.
We are talking Florida heat an a car that touched 12's the last time it was at the track.
Ive got the ZZP Radiator sitting in a closet for over a year an eventually when I do the double roller timing chain and 8-Rib crank I'm gonna go ahead an replaced the hoses the water pump an the radiator all at once.
Point being that DeX-Cool has treated me better then most could ask for. Beware the Boogy man that is the Evil GM empire run by the dexdevil. An enjoy my .02
I had dexcool in my Z-34 and sold it with 275K on it. No issues, My olds had 180K or so with no issues and my GTP with 110K has no issues. I hear a lot of bad about dexcool but personaly I have had no ill effects or bad experiences with it. I maintain my system, I dont add crazy quick fix BS in a bottle, I throw out original caps and run SLANT Lev-R-Vent caps, and I buy good thermostats. Result = no issues and my cars with dex run cooler than any car I've owned with the green stuff.
I hate to go back on topic and answer the OPs question, but a dealer can void specific parts of the warranty. I was told by a Pontiac dealer they can void your powertrain warranty if they find a 180 tstat in your engine. It all depends on the dealer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish
Not legally.
Not legally what?? If there is a cooling system issue and you have a 180 tstat, they are not going to fix it under warranty.
Now if you blow a tranny and you have a 180 tstat, they can try to say no. Then you pull the magmoss act out on their ass and explain that cooler coolant temps did not break your transmission.
In a nutshell, if you have something break and theres a mod that effects it, change it back to stock before you take it in. However, that technically is fraud.