For you TDC. This was an early mockup http://www.zzperformance.com/miscftp/IMG_6818.jpg
Not sure where they finally put the thing, though.
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08-29-2008
For you TDC. This was an early mockup http://www.zzperformance.com/miscftp/IMG_6818.jpg
Not sure where they finally put the thing, though.
08-29-2008
well I see your point. I mean I have never made adjustments or corrections to just one bank and not the other. I mean when i add fuel I add it to the whole engine. Same when I take away fuel. Some skew there cylinders but I have not even done that.My only concern would be If I would get any different readings on the narrowband now that it's only reading one bank vs. reading the two banks combined. Maybe this will frustruate me enough that i will just go get a damn wideband and stop beating around the bush. I should of had one a long time ago.
FWIW I still cant see where the o2 is exactly on the finshed headers. And yes the s&s does have the o2 in the same location. Thats one of the reasons I changed my mind and went with the togs.
So what do you guys think. Togs or The new ZZP Headers? It's getting to be about that time so i need to make a decision.
08-29-2008
Im sure it's suppose to be this way but has anyone noticed how the 3'' flange on the exit is cocked sideways? Or does it just appear that way?
08-29-2008
^^thats how it is supposed to be, look at a down pipe and you can see it
08-29-2008
I love the long primaries. I am also inquisitive about where the O2 sensor is in final.
08-29-2008
I'd get the TOGs, they've been proven for years and are rock solid TDC. You can't go wrong with a set of those. Lets face it, the ZZP headers with be trial and error for awhile until they get all the bugs worked out. The first batch ain't going to be perfect, no ones is.
Still wondering on there O2 sensor placement, surely they won't put it there for the final sets...
08-29-2008
There is a thread about the headers over on cgp, where Someone explains why the O2 sensor is ok in the crossover. I've heard this was fine from a couple of non shadetree people before he ever brought it up, and the reasoning was the same. I have no idea myself, but am just passing on info.Originally Posted by Iron Indian
Last edited by IndeedSS; 08-29-2008 at 01:32 PM.
08-30-2008
I donno, i'm still a big believer that both banks need to be read, with it in the crossover you're only getting info from 3 cylinders. Plus slip fit connections are a pain in the ass anyway. Try removing those headers in a few years on a daily driver from the northern states not to mention on and off several times.
I'd just about opt for S&s headers over these. Your not gaining much other than materal and size IMO. I expected more from them than these.
With flanges and a proper O2 placement, they'd be pretty decent although I believe ceramic coating should be offered for these too...
08-30-2008
Some good points.
I image ZZP is trying to keep the price low enough, without giving them away so that people will buy them. In the wbody market, price is more important that quality. First question is how much. Once the price has been set, then comes the quality questions.
If truely ultimate headers hit the market, as in TOG's with an adjustment so you didn't have to use a bent tranny dipstick, ball and socket crossover joints, bolt-in DP..etc the price would be well beyond $1000. There wouldn't be many Ultimate Headers sold to our group. I would have paid the extra, and so would a handful of others, but that's not enough to support making these.
This is unfortunate, but understandable. I know my son can't afford pricey mods for his GTP, even though he wants them. A while back he asked me "Dad can I have your car when you die?"
08-30-2008
A while back he asked me "Dad can I have your car when you die?"
I still don't see what the point of having all the cylinders measured is. You think if one is running bad that the O2 sensor can really pick it out of the gasses from the other five? The PCM might think they're all running a little rich or lean, but not enough for any big changes and you're f'd anyway.
08-30-2008
LOL nice smiley. What you say makes complete sense to me.
09-02-2008
I was a bit impressed with them until I saw the location of the O2 sensor. They can give me all the reasons they want, but if the factory put that O2 sensor in such a place as to read the whole exhaust stream then why in hades would you build a new set of headers from the ground up and not do the same?
I would have also thought that maybe they would have put in a provision for a wideband as well. I mean its just another access point that can be plugged if not needed.
It just makes me really uncomfortable that they would opt to do as they have done. If its such a great place to place the O2 sensor then why has there not been more people doing it on their own? I mean, where its at now is not really optimum for access and then its proximity to the spark plug complicates things further.
Perhaps its just me, but I would have been more excited about these had they just left the location the same.
09-02-2008
Where it's at is where Dave put my WB in my TOG crossover. Fairly easy access, compared to the alternatives. This seems to be in location, that those in the know are fine with, so it's ok with me.
I'm sure due to the inquiries, they'll move the O2 to a less accessible place to quiet the masses.
09-02-2008
To my knowledge no one has confirmed where it is. Doesent look like it is in the same place as it was in the mock builds wich would be the crossover. At least i dont see it. I tried calling them the other day around 12 and no one answered so i guess they were at lunch...correct me if im wrong but they say they use tog style downpipes. dont tog style downpipe's have the o2 bung in the dp? Maybe zzp is the same?
09-02-2008
$700 !!! >:|
09-02-2008
TOG's come with a shorty DP with no O2 bung. The O2 bung is on the collector. The TOG BOLT-IN DP (sold separately) does have an O2 bung, but it's the after cat one.
09-07-2008
I've changed my mind I think. Im ordering something this friday I know that much lol. But im pretty sure it's gunna be the new ZZP headers. And this is why.
I like stainless headers much better than coated...Just always have.
And the price difference is almost the same compared to the togs.
This is what i'll be ordering:
''ZZP''
ZZP headers- 699.99
Autolite 103's-10.99
Felpro Exhaust manifold gaskets-14.99
Bolt in Dp-100.00
Shipping-19.46 !!
**Total:844.44**
''3800 preformance''
Tog's-749.99
Autolite 103's-11.00
Misc Exhaust parts to compleate the install from the shorty DP-30.00
Felpro gaskets-14.99
Shipping-30.00
**Total:836.99**
When the ones from ZZP get here depending what mine and my brothers schedule is looking like I am going to plug the crossover O2 bung and cut and weld a new hole in the bolt in DP.
I will post some pics and let you guys know how everything turns out with these. The pacesetters are already sold so i need to get them off the car asap anyway. It's been longer than planned as is.
09-07-2008
ill be ordering mine soon too, i gotta buy the Northstar TB and my meth kit first. and hook up my intercooler, i think i need to take another week off from work
09-07-2008
Actually not a bad price compared to TOGs, seeing how these are better anyway.
09-07-2008
Right. And that's my main reason for getting them. Because of the primaries ect.
There actually the same price as the togs when you add in the shorty DP (tog's come with one) for 50 bucks.
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