I'm a big fan of SQ...I'm more worried about Qtc. Ported can be very very nice when incorproating wave guides properly. But since my goal is different, sealed works great
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10-03-2009
I'm a big fan of SQ...I'm more worried about Qtc. Ported can be very very nice when incorproating wave guides properly. But since my goal is different, sealed works great
10-03-2009
Ported is for people who like to bump in the 30-50 Hz range and have nothing else. At least in cars :P
As for the box calculator... i think you should upgrade to a REAL one:
LinearTeam
UniBox - Unified Box Model for Loudspeaker Design
I use the latter as I find it has more features out in the open which you can quickly tweek unlike WinISD.
Heres my view on Xmax vs. design's Xmax:
Xmax is the when the Bl of the motor is at 70% of its rest value, that means that this is a good idea of the limit for distortion granted the spider and surround are up to that level of excursion. A good design will have used most of the Xmax of the driver while still having a small safety net.
The safety net in car audio is CRUCIAL because people like to turn things up past where they should be and have no idea if their amps are clipping or not. For my home audio rig I have Vu meters on all channels and I know at what level which amps will clip. The speaker sounds like **** before it clips so thats safe but the sub has an Xmax of 30 mm and the one that was designed for the box is capable of 22 mm. The 22 sounded like **** when being pushed (the box was designed to push that woofer to 22 mm of excursion with the full 1200 watts). So clearly the speaker wasn't enough in my design so I finally reconed the other 30 mm Xmax sub and threw that back in and voila, no longer have headroom issues. Downside? That sub was designed for sealed use in a car so the response curve is more than messed up (drops off after 30 Hz instead of being close to flat to 20 Hz)
Another thing with headroom and all that jazz... My car rig is fused through a 60 amp fuse and this under max load will start to drag the system voltage down by 0.5 or a full volt for a fraction of a second. With that knowledge, clearly the stock system can't handle enough power to throw an 18" sub in there. Or even a decent sub of any size other than 8 or 10. By decent i mean like this:
[ SoundSplinter Subwoofers - Ignition Series 8" and 10" Drivers ]
Sure they're kinda bling with the aluminum spun cones and rubber surrounds but the one I had was the cleanest sub I've ever heard.
If you want good subs for decent prices, I've got links, but keep in mind, you won't be able to say "I've got kickers!" "I've got JBL!" but you'll be able to show 'em up none-the-less.
Subs really are the easy part, I mean you walk into a Subway or Mr Sub...
But seriously, they are. The tricky part is finding a solution to midbass, midrange and high end.
10-03-2009
Great explanation of how to incorporate xmax into design...I think people need to start paying attention to their speaker specs. Modeling boxes using a program really isn't all that difficult and they would be surprised at their real world sound if done appropriately.
Mid-range and mid-bass really are difficult :/
It's not hard for most though since they're not sure what the sound should be.
10-03-2009
I agree with both of you the soundstream rlp-8's I heard were amazing in a small ported s10 enclosure super tight and responsive that and the guy had some really nice hertz comps that was system that changed my mind about my next one. I dont listen to much jigga boom any more... more like breaking benjamin, three days grace, and five finger death punch are the favorites lately. And x100 on a properly designed box.
10-03-2009
Digital Designs FTW
Originally Posted by SuperSport
10-03-2009
Ah guys... come on... DD is for people who don't know the difference between a fart can and a straight pipe V8.
Funny... I've never heard of Soundstream.
The one driver I was considering using for my midbass only comes in an 8 ohm variant which means I probably have to keep searching. (4 ohm is the min for decent power out of a car amp sadly)
The worst part about living in Canada is that Partsexpress charges you up the A$$ for shipping. $50 to ship two 5.25" midranges. The best part was the oversized box they came in plus the nice brokerage fees that were levied against me because they refuse to ship USPS. Otherwise I'd have a pair of these on their way right now.
Lets have a vote, who in their right mind wouldn't want this?
DIYCable.com : Intro » Home » Exodus Subwoofers »
DIYCable.com : Intro » Home » Exodus Subwoofers »
26 MM of Xmax for under $200? Who would have thought... Fi car audio is another great place to look as well.
Getting side tracked...yet still on topic, gotta love it.
Ported boxes can't be big enough to cover the range I'm looking for in a car (20 Hz or lower tune) so sealed is the best for that situation. If you just like the 30-50 Hz boom, ported can work quite well, just make sure you've got a highpass filter in place or you'll physically damage your sub(s).
How about we have a competition... Lets pick the song School by Supertramp and see who gets the loudest clean SPL in the first minute of the song... And the fun part is, theres no bass, all thats going to be stressed is your midrange driver and perhaps your tweeter if you're unlucky enough to have it crossed over that low.
Or... Dubalicious by Bass Mekanik, perhaps Tocatta in B by the same guy. Tocatta in B WILL destroy your ported subs unless you've got them high pass'd so don't say I didn't warn you!
10-03-2009
Fi was the forum boner like over a year ago on carauido.com check there to see what the latest one is. lol last i check DD Fi soundsplinter ascendant audio and re audio were popular and good even on a budget
10-04-2009
...
Last edited by Leon; 09-22-2013 at 07:16 PM.
10-07-2009
Lets get out our physics textbooks... Because I'll bet I could get louder than the loudest Fi with a pro woofer.
Last edited by matt5112; 10-07-2009 at 10:58 AM.
10-10-2009
are u saying DD is garbage?Ah guys... come on... DD is for people who don't know the difference between a fart can and a straight pipe V8.
Funny... I've never heard of Soundstream.
The one driver I was considering using for my midbass only comes in an 8 ohm variant which means I probably have to keep searching. (4 ohm is the min for decent power out of a car amp sadly)
The worst part about living in Canada is that Partsexpress charges you up the A$$ for shipping. $50 to ship two 5.25" midranges. The best part was the oversized box they came in plus the nice brokerage fees that were levied against me because they refuse to ship USPS. Otherwise I'd have a pair of these on their way right now.
Lets have a vote, who in their right mind wouldn't want this?
DIYCable.com : Intro » Home » Exodus Subwoofers »
DIYCable.com : Intro » Home » Exodus Subwoofers »
26 MM of Xmax for under $200? Who would have thought... Fi car audio is another great place to look as well.
Getting side tracked...yet still on topic, gotta love it.
Ported boxes can't be big enough to cover the range I'm looking for in a car (20 Hz or lower tune) so sealed is the best for that situation. If you just like the 30-50 Hz boom, ported can work quite well, just make sure you've got a highpass filter in place or you'll physically damage your sub(s).
How about we have a competition... Lets pick the song School by Supertramp and see who gets the loudest clean SPL in the first minute of the song... And the fun part is, theres no bass, all thats going to be stressed is your midrange driver and perhaps your tweeter if you're unlucky enough to have it crossed over that low.
Or... Dubalicious by Bass Mekanik, perhaps Tocatta in B by the same guy. Tocatta in B WILL destroy your ported subs unless you've got them high pass'd so don't say I didn't warn you!
Originally Posted by SuperSport
10-10-2009
DD is like the .50 cal DE. What is its purpose? Because last I checked, its kinda overkill.
By no means is it a bad product in the quality sense, just not that useful.
10-11-2009
for a decent all around setup still think anything over 12 is over kill and the response begins to suffer and for the people who think dd is over kill what would you go with instead? I think DD is a very reputable company and systems are all about the install you can have all the money in equipment and you set up can still blow the big one. dont even think of talking JL Audio either. If so just turn on another episode or unique whips or some MTV crap. JL = over rated and over priced.
10-11-2009
The W7 is a good sounding woofer, very nice sound quality, and very over priced.
Response doesn't begin to suffer... that is a MYTH! A smaller woofer has to move further to produce the same level of sound and therefore must stop moving (which doesn't happen instantly) and then start moving at the different rate. Larger woofers have more mass, but larger motors to control the cone and VC with just as much speed and precision as the smaller woofer. The result is, only a poorly designed driver in a poorly designed box will sound like ****.
What are your goals? Getting loud as fvck or sounding good while being decently loud? Without knowing that, I can't recommend anything,
10-11-2009
Car Audio is like rocket science
You can use arrays of 6.5" woofers and accomplish the same output, authority, and clarity as much larger woofers. Conversely, an 18" can sound much better than anything else you've ever used. It's all about finding the strengths & weaknesses of your hardware and designing around that.
I shoot for a Qtc of .7 when building enclosures.
10-11-2009
Even just looking at Qtc isn't enough. The response curve is a lot more useful as it will tell you exactly whats going on.
10-11-2009
Oh definitely. I plan on resurrecting a laptop and creating my own RTA. 04+ grand prix's have some cabin gain in the 40's. That's where cuts in EQ can really help with installations
10-11-2009
Most people have no idea how to set up an equalizer, anyone know much about the alpine head unit with the imprint system every one seems to say is so great on the alpine 9887 headunit i think.
10-11-2009
Heh, my engine at idle resonates at 40 Hz.
10-11-2009
Man, is it ironic that your grammar is a little spotty?
10-11-2009
The Imprint processor uses a researched algorithm to produce what the President of Alpine believes to be the most prominent choice, amongst every day people, for sound. He put together some specific sound curves and did a/b comparisons with groups of people.
This is the curve that the Imprint systems are using as a standard for tuning response. It will reveal a few choices after going through the install steps but they're all very close in approximations. In the end, many installers have found ways to massage their own specific sound curve by creating their own instructive placement of the Audyssey microphone. In the end it's all trial and error with the Imprint system.
If you know absolutely nothing about sound or tuning it will get you closer to good SQ than you'd ever manage by trial and error. It probably does a better job than most local sound shops too. However, if you want to enlighten yourself with books and some research, you have a chance at tuning your ear and possibly getting that much closer to the realization of sound goals.
Find a car utilizing Imprint and demo it?
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