I want to badge a First Gen Firebird, "Firebird GTP"

[molsenice]

Let me start by saying, I'm an avid GP 97-03 lover. I foolishly massacred a 97 GTP and now have a reasonable 01 GT with some custom work. Trust me, I know what I lost. I'll provide some pics. The gentleman who owned the 01 before me removed the badging and added some stencil work on the side. Otherwise, it's in terrific shape. 01GT Okay, on to the point. I have a 1967 Firebird 326. The old man purchased it off the lot in 1967 and together we are working a recondition of the interior and other worn components. The 326 it came with is tired and although parts are available we're looking for something more unique. I want to badge it a "Firebird GTP" by using a 5spd and a built 3800 L67 Motor from ZZP. Now, I know a lot of people will scream and say just do the true pontiac v8 but HP and Torque are HP and Torque. I've got a good friend Lee whom has supplied some solid advice as far as conversion ideas, bolt ups and installation ideas but I also want to through it to the community because you all are the Pro's. Let me know. 67 Firebird My question for the community is if you had a 1st Gen and were willing to do this, parts, build ideas, what and how? The Goal: Something strong, fast and more than anything completely unique. I will not sell or disregard the 326 currently employed. It will also be rebuilt and kept for the future. I want a first gen Firebird GTP. Thank you! - Matt

[idrivejunk]

Well, whatever you do don't have ANY emblems on it when you get done! The GPers here are unanimously opposed to cars with writing on them of any kind, its like emblems take away horsepower. Personally, If I built that I might just put Sprint6 emblems on it. To quote a member here: "Taste is relative, but acceptance can be a factor."

As far as the build itself, I like the idea. Just remember thats a Buick engine, nothing Pontiac about it so its not likely to set well with purists of course. When I mention my 3800 at a Pontiac forum, it becomes a ghost town. Just like here if I mention the 455. Luckily, the only person who has to like the car is you.

The proposed setup would be giant fun if you ask me, though. Do it. I don't think theres will be a great deal of hurdles to jump to make it happen. Accessory drive would be one challenge, but since the 3800 AKA Buick 231 has been around since '64 there has to be a combo that will help you swap. Would you use steering pump and alternator from a 3800 car, or aftermarket, or 67 Firebird?

[REDCRAPGP]

In for pics but please don't stick GTP badges on there.

[Bio248]

In for pics but please don't stick GTP badges on there.

i'm on this page, too.

i don't even like the badges when they're stock on the car, though. i'm taking the V badges off of my CTS-V. they get in the way when i'm waxing.

and PS - a turbo would be a way better course of action than leaving the blower on it.

[theaceofspades]

I'm on the build your car the way you want it. Since it's your car your money.


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[molsenice]

Hi all. I agree with you all about the badging. even my 01 doesnt have badging on it. Do you all have any mechanical ideas or thoughts regarding this type of swap?

[Bio248]

i'd take the entire drivetrain out of a camaro or firebird and drop it in, PCM and all.

[LeadfootCJ7]

The 326 it came with is tired and although parts are available we're looking for something more unique. I want to badge it a "Firebird GTP" by using a 5spd and a built 3800 L67 Motor from ZZP.

Now, I know a lot of people will scream and say just do the true pontiac v8 but HP and Torque are HP and Torque.

First off, these 2 things don't go together. Do you want unique or HP/ TQ? They are not nec the same.

Secondly Don't put GTP badges on it.

If you want unique, its pretty clear you have your mind made up.

If you want HP/TQ, do an LS pullout and trans. Throw a cam in while its out or do a budget turbo built. More power/tq than an L67 will get you when similarly built.

I am all for something different and unique, but if I am going to the work of a motor swap in a car like that, it is going to have power as well. Did you consider rebuilding the original motor to take boost and throwing a supercharger or turbo on it?

[sseilmnop]

The intake side of the supercharger will be in or through the firewall. Most forum threads were they talk about this mention they don't recommend doing it.

[selliott]

First off I agree with bio and the turbo being a better idea. Second don't do a Zzp l67 I have one and I've been warned over and over about the quality. Just my 2 cents. I would love to see some pics of this build.

[idrivejunk]

Hi all. I agree with you all about the badging. even my 01 doesnt have badging on it. Do you all have any mechanical ideas or thoughts regarding this type of swap?

Wouldn't you need to use a RWD block for this? Planning electric fans or clutch fan? Why would the air intake go through the firewall? What trans are you using? Can you use X body engine mounts and accessories on an L67 or were you planning to fab mounts and keep the serpentine belts? A/C or no? Those are questions that come to mind when I consider what mechanical issues might arise.

[molsenice]

First off I agree with bio and the turbo being a better idea. Second don't do a Zzp l67 I have one and I've been warned over and over about the quality. Just my 2 cents. I would love to see some pics of this build.

Why the quality? I've considered a LS swap and a rebuild of the 326. A supercharged 326 would be amazing and it is definitely on the table. Honestly, if I take the 326 out, someday it will go back in but a 500+HP L67 would be a very unique build. This car will never be 'complete' but if the built supercharged L67 is a poor choice I want to hear why.

[molsenice]

The intake side of the supercharger will be in or through the firewall. Most forum threads were they talk about this mention they don't recommend doing it.

The L67 supercharger intake will push though the firewall of a 1967 firebird? The engine bay in that thing is like 5ft long. Every time I post I imagine that this is so much qualified for off topic. Again, I very much appreciate all of your input.

[WhiteLightningGTP]

Junkyard 5.3 with heads, cam, and turbo. Throw a T56 in it and make 600hp out of your budget build.

[selliott]

Why the quality? I've considered a LS swap and a rebuild of the 326. A supercharged 326 would be amazing and it is definitely on the table. Honestly, if I take the 326 out, someday it will go back in but a 500+HP L67 would be a very unique build. This car will never be 'complete' but if the built supercharged L67 is a poor choice I want to hear why.

I'm not saying a built l67 or l32 is a bad choice I'm just saying that I've been warned that zzp cut some corners on their short block builds. If I had it to do over again, and I might we will see lol, I'd use a stock l26 bottom end for my turbo build. Btw 500+ whp will be hard to get with the m90. Save yourself some time and money and just go turbo from the get go.

[molsenice]

I'm not saying a built l67 or l32 is a bad choice I'm just saying that I've been warned that zzp cut some corners on their short block builds. If I had it to do over again, and I might we will see lol, I'd use a stock l26 bottom end for my turbo build. Btw 500+ whp will be hard to get with the m90. Save yourself some time and money and just go turbo from the get go.

What corners are you talking about regarding the zzp build?

[molsenice]

All this talk is driving me back to the 326 as the base of my rebuild. I understand that during the GM standardization days, Pontiac to 4cylnder, Buick V6 and Chevy V8 but that was 40 years ago. The reality is that that technology is been redesigned, redeveloped and there's nothing really original about it other than the displacement.

What I'm hearing is...
1. No badging. - Done (I've run away and thrown that in the junk yard)
2. Build it right. - Not supercharged but do it turbo... (cost?) Still leaning towards supercharger.
3. Anything else?

[REDCRAPGP]

X2 on the whole supercharger eaton route it's going to be very difficult to squeeze high hp out of one.. Without probably spending even more money and still failing short of your goals. Turbo is the way to go for that kind of power.

[molsenice]

X2 on the whole supercharger eaton route it's going to be very difficult to squeeze high hp out of one.. Without probably spending even more money and still failing short of your goals. Turbo is the way to go for that kind of power.

Can you offer some specs, options, what and how to build that type of horsepower out of a 3800? I really appreciate the 3800 and want the surprise factor and not a typical LS swap or a 326 rebuild (even though that will come at some point) of course both would be great. I a monster 3800 to not only piss off everyone but beat them on the track would just be fun.

I'll put out some calls to a few shops this week to get an opinion. I'll post results. I appreciate all your advice.

- Cheers

[Slick2500]

Wouldn't you need to use a RWD block for this? Planning electric fans or clutch fan? Why would the air intake go through the firewall? What trans are you using? Can you use X body engine mounts and accessories on an L67 or were you planning to fab mounts and keep the serpentine belts? A/C or no? Those are questions that come to mind when I consider what mechanical issues might arise.

What do you mean rwd block? Like the old 3.8 that came in the old 70-80s buicks? Or the 3.8 that was in the 4th gen fbodys?