Overkill Will Tuning God

I can't help the fact you guys think im lying or being vague when i answer questions in short terms. If you want to know more about something ask me but im not about to tell you all a story every time i make a post.

I dont have a problem with any guy that tunes or claims to tune. Im just being realistic that some guy with a wideband clamped onto an exhaust pipe is going to do something that gm couldnt do in a $50million dollar test facility (whom many of my friends work at). I will always say i cant do much better than stock tuning on a stock car and ive been doing 3800 tuning years before will has... and im willing to bet he is using tools that i helped put together.

The simple fact is in closed loop the o2 sensor is the tuner. Will sitting in there doing tuning is completely pointless when the o2 sensor will change it back to whatever it was the second it has the chance.

See you should just elaborate like this little more often.

DH,

I will always say i cant do much better than stock tuning on a stock car and ive been doing 3800 tuning years before will has

And this is where Will trumps you and GM, his abilities and accomplishments obviously exceed yours and I'm sure GM could use him.

I'm not trying to belittle you but this guy can do a lot of things, that GM could have but they build for the general public and need to leave room for retardation. He can modify and make all functions of your PCM work together and make it much more enjoyable for the end user. Not your average local neighbourhood tuner, he has customers from all over, more than any other 3800 tuner I'm betting.

Don't take it personally, but you probably will, seeing as there's nobody else in the room for you to talk to.

We know closed loop operation...we've also asked you to elaborate before and you never respond. Let's also face the fact that just because gm uses test equipment worth millions means that there's not improvments to be made. Gm made there crap for the masses. Not for the owner with performance in mind.

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Originally Posted by 91parkave

We know closed loop operation...we've also asked you to elaborate before and you never respond. Let's also face the fact that just because gm uses test equipment worth millions means that there's not improvments to be made. Gm made there crap for the masses. Not for the owner with performance in mind.

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This is true. GM should've at least known the Pontiac line deserved better tuning overall due to the fact that it was the excitement brand

Lol. What exactly do you think he is going to improve on a stock car?

Saying gm needs overkill will is like saying ferrari needs one of the ferrari replica kit car builders on their design team.

factory tuning for reliability! No sense in trying to wring out every last hp when the location of the vehicle alone can effect the performance........ Think a car in colorado will perform the same as one in florida for example? Hint: No it wont. Saying a tuner is better than factory is asinine........

Id like to think any tuner can ring out some more HP anyone look at what a tune alone does for a new Cadillac ATS!???? Lol......

Some people in here are just leg humpers...........

And to the point of wills tuning I'm sure even he will agree that he's only as good as the products he can use which is the same products everyone can access. We all have access to the same tables as well. And even if you hack the PCM and go through line by line of code to make your own software you can only operate to the max of the hardware capability. No magic can be performed

People often forget that we are turning essentially 1 injector on and off longer or shorter... thats all tuning is...

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Originally Posted by darkhorizon

People often forget that we are turning essentially 1 injector on and off longer or shorter... thats all tuning is...

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that's like saying painting is like dipping a brush in to paint and putting in on a medium.
There a lot more art in tuning that many think.

This is what differentiates a stick figure painting to a masterpiece.

Art as in picking between the lesser of 2 evils maybe but no one person is going to do math more artfully than the next guy.

people don't change their narrowband sensors often enough

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Originally Posted by darkhorizon

I can't help the fact you guys think im lying or being vague when i answer questions in short terms. If you want to know more about something ask me but im not about to tell you all a story every time i make a post.

I dont have a problem with any guy that tunes or claims to tune. Im just being realistic that some guy with a wideband clamped onto an exhaust pipe is going to do something that gm couldnt do in a $50million dollar test facility (whom many of my friends work at). I will always say i cant do much better than stock tuning on a stock car and ive been doing 3800 tuning years before will has... and im willing to bet he is using tools that i helped put together.

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But.......You are being vague when you answer. If you're going to take the time to say someone is completely wrong about a subject, you're gonna have to take time to at least explain in a little detail. If you're going to be on a forum posting about your accomplishments, you're pretty much expected to substantiate the things you claim to know.
The way I tune, is gonna be different from the way you tune, and it's different for just about everyone else. Ya just can't leave everybody hanging.

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Originally Posted by darkhorizon

People often forget that we are turning essentially 1 injector on and off longer or shorter... thats all tuning is...

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Maybe that's how you do your tuning, but there's a lot that goes into Will's programing. Just ask the 05 GP guys, with the backwards fuel gauges which was no easy feat.

Designs his own cams, built his own M112 setup and I'm sure he writes his own code when needed.

He's been in the GP scene from the beginning and he tunes twin turbo vetted, srt8's and much more.

Look and see how much negative feedback you hear about other tuners (including yourself) and see what people say about Will's work. How many can say they shipped to Alaska to Florida and beyond.

His tunes are proven to work, I'm sure others can tune but his experience shows in his work.

Back to topic...

The original point that DH was trying to make is that an in-car tune is not worth the money on a factory Grand Prix. It would be wiser to install some mods, and THEN spend the money on an in-car tune, instead of doing it twice, and spending the money twice.

No one ever insulted Will or his tuning abilities. I personally have one of his canned tunes in my Bonneville.

ive come to the conclusion you dont understand tuning but like Will...........

I feel like this thread is conversation of a 10 year old....

MY bike is better because its MINE........

edit : @ Aligater

Dark's posts are a riot.

How does one improve performance tuning a completely factory 3800?

#1 - Improve the very inconsistent AFR targets at WOT that create KR. Midrange is typically too lean, redline is typically too rich. This is by design in the factory calibration.
#2 - Fix the fueling commands that create burst KR
#3 - Fix the timing commands that drop the spark advance way down then back up just before entering Power Enrichment mode
#4 - Improve the spark knock recovery rates, which from factory pull timing out at about 1/2 degree of spark advance per second, or in other words 10 seconds is required to bring timing back to full after a burst KR occurance of 5*
#5 - Fix the factory MAF calibration. Anyone who's tuned lots of 3800s knows the common LT fuel trim errors in both the 97-98 and 99+ Series II style MAFs, or the horrendous 2004 Series III MAF calibration. Dark says the factory MAF calibration is best, FYI.
#6 - Fix the abuse mode commands and traction control commands that can blow up the engine while in boost
#7 - Fix the boost cut issue at full throttle (isn't so much a Grand Prix issue but other 3800 S2 vehicles)
#8 - Remove the speed limiter
#9 - Fix the 2-3 gear short shift at WOT
#10 - Allow downshifting to 1st and 2nd gear at higher road speeds
#11 - Improve the fluid pressure management that causes TCC oscillation issues, inconsistent shift quality based on fluid temp
#12 - Improve the transmission shift pattern at part throttle and remove the TCC bog
#13 - Allow the cooling fans to run below the hot factory 220-230*F settings
And that's not an inclusive list of everything that I do, that's simply all I can pull off the top of my head at 10pm at night, I don't really want to spend a lot of time on this post, know what I mean?

I'd challenge Dark's claim that he's been tuning the 3800 years before me, or that he wrote any of the software that any of us use to tune with. I could talk out of my ass as well and make such claims, I wonder who'd know the difference. Certainly if he's the one tuning 3800s for GM, it would explain a lot.

I'd also challenge anyone who ASSumes tuning through a wideband in the tailpipe doesn't work to prove it. I've verified the readings pre and post cat many multiple times including very purposefully before I started using this method to tune other people's vehicles roughly 7-8 years ago. Frankly I know what I'm doing.

BTW I can see the title of this thread causing its own issues, it's a bit much, but thanks anyway!

Yep. Stupid is confirmed.

Lol at the "wb is still accurate through a cat" statement though... i fine with tailpipe widebands i use them often but you didnt need to take a trip om the crazy train with that one lol.

If i had a computer i would explain why you are stupid on each on of your "fixes" above. I just made a post in this section that addresses most all of those points. I wont say any of them are wrong but you make a real strong case that they are "fixes" lol.

Also remember anyone that is reading this is probably looking to give overkill money... so obviously he is going to try his hardest to call someone smarter than him stupid. Im not here to make money or prevent overwill from making money. I just want everyone to understand what they are buying when they get a mystery "i fixed gm's stupid problems in my garage with a $40 wideband clamped on my exhaust "

If you had any tuning experience, you'd provide reasonable counter arguments while calling me a con artist, trying to trick unknowing people into tuning their 3800 with unrealistic fixes.