'01 GTP Rich Condition

[Dadkota]

I should start off by saying I know nothing about tuning, and I just happened to read the sticky about the rich condition when removing the rear O2 sensor. I have an '01 GTP with ZZP 1.0 PCM and I have the rear O2 simulator as a replacement. I still have a catted 3" DP so my question is am I having this rich condition? I dont have my Aeroforce installed yet, but when I go WOT on the highway, i can smell lots of fuel when I let off. Is that normal? What will happen if I keep it that way? Im not worried about inspection because they just plug in to see if any codes (which there are none).

[Scottydoggs]

if you smell raw gas id be looking for a leak somewhere.

if you were super rich you'd be smoking black out the tail pipes.

[Dadkota]

I dont suspect a leak becasue the Plog is brand new with new gaskets. the DP is kinda old but the catback is brand new and everything was put of professionally. Also no sound when im under car with it running. I have never been able to see the color of smoke out the exhaust, Im going purely off the sticky above. Where I would fall under that catagory

[Scottydoggs]

i mean a fuel leak, not an exhaust leak.

[Dadkota]

Ooooh, I have never looked. How would I check? Wouldnt it not have enough pressure to run injectors anyway if there was a leak?

[Scottydoggs]

oh it can leak and still run just fine. the quick connects on the top of the sc to the rail, those can leak. and a rusted almost through line can also drip. filter can also rust through.

this is if your smelling raw gas, like it just came out of a gas can type smell.

[Dadkota]

I'll have to check everything out, the quick connects are in good condition. Not rusted as I can see. I will need to look at everything else. So you think nothing is wrong with running rich at WOT? It just hit a nerve and I figured I would ask

[Scottydoggs]

i have no idea if zzp kills the cat test or not, did they set the code to no report?

[Dadkota]

I believe it does, I didn't get any CEL codes.

[Dadkota]

I should also note, I only smell gas at WOT. Never just cruising around

[Uno99]

i have no idea if zzp kills the cat test or not, did they set the code to no report?

ZZP does not I have one of their 1.0 PCM and have this issue on it. It still dumps fuel from time to time.

[buickman104]

Yup on a ZZP canned tune in the cooler weather my car sits at -9 LTFT to -18 LTFT an has terrible fuel economy. Same thing with my Buddy's Bonneville SSEi with a ZZP canned tune.

[Reptile]

ZZP deletes the check engine circuits in some of the PCMs too...even if it should throw a code, it probably won't.
OP needs to clarify. You say you smell fuel. Is it gasoline? Or are you talking about the exhaust fuel stink. They are two different issues that address two different problems. It could be that the down pipe isn't sealed, and you're getting the un-burned fuel smell in the cabin.

[Dadkota]

So they don't delete that code, okay. I only get fuel smell at WOT runs through the RPM range. And it smells like raw gas, like you were to dump it on the ground. I don't think I have any exhaust leaks, everything was put on professionally and very recently, all with new gaskets. It seems to just be the dumping of extra fuel, I can't see my fuel trims because I don't have DHP or HPT and my Aeroforce isn't set up yet. The car doesn't run poorly, it actually runs really good. I change my plugs to AL104s a few weeks ago and the old plugs looked great for 85k miles on em.

[jaydubb71]

I would seriously get that checked ASAP if I was you...

[buford1972]

I know this is an old thread but I am having a similar issue. At WOT my AFR (Innovate MTX-L gauge) drops to 10.5 and when I let off the throttle I can smell what seems like an exhaust soot/running rich smell for just a second after (with a window down and / or sunroof open). Any other time driving around my AFR stays bouncing around 14.2 - 15.5. This is all with a ZZP canned tune. No KR, Gen 5, N*, EGR delete, LQ4, 3.4, TOG, Random Technologies DP/CAT, Comp Cams cam, Bosch #42 injectors blah, blah, blah.... Other than the WOT AFR and a P0420 code (w/ no CEL) which I cant figure how to fix for the AZ plug-in emission test, things seem to run ok. I have been talking with Tim from ZZP and he said that he has never tuned for the green Bosch #42 injectors but set it up for blue #42 injectors. I found this comment to be a bit curious since they sell the Green Bosch injectors. BTW, my green Bosch injectors are legit from Summit Racing and drop shipped from Bosch. Anyway, I feel that 10.5 is way too rich. Tim stated something about the enrichment tables for the open loop/WOT fueling. Does this make any sense to anyone? I would love to purchase a HP or other tuning program and tinker with tuning but funds for that are a little scarce ate the moment. Any ideas from anybody?

[Fivefingerdeathpunch]

I still think it's not uncommon to smell raw fuel or exhaust after you let off the throttle after a WOT run. Depending on exhaust setup and if any minor leaks will allow the smell to swirl around the car.

Yes 10.5 is a tad rich and ideally a 11.5 or so is a preferred target AFR to be at. But with only a ZZP canned tune that might not even be 100% correctly setup for the mods you have, it might be best that you are running that rich to possibly keep the car from seeing knock.

Your head work and valve train/camshaft upgrade is helping a ton with air flow and keeping heat down.

You can adjust the power enrichment settings to bring the air fuel ratio up some but I wouldn't touch anything yet. ZZP cannot and never will be able to custom tune for the mods you have, it's just not possible. You can't just toss a different throttle body, maf sensor and camshaft in the motor and think that regular generic tables plugged into a computer are going to right. At a minimum it needs a custom MAF tune to correct for any errors because that MAF is larger and flows a different amount of air into the motor. Then you work on timing and fine tuning your WOT fueling.

[SgtMarshal]

on my last grand prix, when I would stop at the stop sign on the off ramp from the interstate I would smell fuel, even with the windows up. I never thought anything of it, and never had any real issues with the car, finally getting rid of it at 200,000 miles. without actually owning a tuner, there isn't much you can do. with my current car, I have worked with Will from overkill, but I have a tuner and take scans then email them to him for adjustments. Like 5fingerdeathpunch said, 10.5 is a tad rich, but you are likely not losing much power being that rich. my car typically runs in the 10's as well, I just haven't cared enough to do anything about.

[GTPpower]

Sounds like you have a good running car. Unless you want to get a tuner, you can't do much.

[buford1972]

Thank you everyone for the insight. I was being optamistic but I figured that the ZZP canned tune would be good to get me on the road but not optimal for my specific setup. I guess that I need to find someone on this forum that lives in AZ and would be interested in making a few extra $$ to help a guy out, spend about $600 + for a shop to tune my car, or man-up and spend the cash for HP Tuners. Anyone know a tuner here in AZ?? Lol