Thread: Adding a 2nd MAF?

Port the box to make your comparison relevant.

The air would go through the ports in the box.


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If you went for a csc and sc'd, that would make less of a "variable" boost situation, and you get your extra oomph.

Originally Posted by Explicit_Spade

Port the box to make your comparison relevant.

The air would go through the ports in the box.


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Tuned to 32 or 35hz? Last I looked valves didnt just stay open, thus called the word.... wait for it........."Boost"

Tuned to ItHz

When one valve closes, another valve opens.


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Originally Posted by Mitch R

It will go out the path of least resistance, the manifold pressure is created because the engine already can't draw it in fast enough

...

sc pushes 10psi, turbo does 15psi how will the sc stop that?

Originally Posted by Fivefingerdeathpunch

I don't know of any software that would allow that and have anyway to control it.

Ideally it would be so much easier to just ditch the factory computer, run a MS3 system or similar and just delete the MAF altogether. Run a true speed density setup with a 2-3 bar MAP sensor and be way ahead of the game.

this. MS3pro n CAN bus GPIO's

The only true reason to Twin charge would be if we were diesels and you were trying to increase manifold pressure too insane amounts

What if the SC pulley had a clutch similar to the one the AC compressor uses. Would that make any sense at all when twin charging

From a thermodynamic efficiency standpoint the supercharger is a parasitic loss on the crankshaft. Where the turbocharger is utilizing otherwise wasted energy going out the tailpipe.
The only reason you would want to Twin charged with if you wanted to produce over 50 PSI of boost...

but at your talking about is compounding, compounding only makes sense when your shooting for a really high pressure....like what a diesel needs, and even they tend to use compounded turbo's because of their greater efficiency. only reason you see screw/turbo compounded diesels is when they are shooting for instant pressure increase to help spool the bigger turbo

Jonbob/Pritt's/PRJ whipple GP, hasn't done over 540whp, even at 22+ psi, Tq must be ungodly at just 1500rpm....but our relatively small turbo hits 608 whp at just 18psi, and we still have a helluva Tq band

imagine the whp increase if it wasn't losing over 100 hp just to turn the whipple.

nitrous is so awesome because aside from parasitic losses of an alternator feeding the amps the solenoids require....its all "free power"


with modern turbo's running quite well even at higher pressure ratio's, whats the point of a heavy overly complicated twincharge system over a full boogie turbo.

besides, the 2300cc/140ci whipple is too small for us, you have to spin it too fast, better the larger sizes

id rather see someone bolt a 4-71/6-71 roots on, with the bug catcher turned 90* like a Quasimodo hunchback, lookin Johnny number five, looking at ya like yer a stupid human.

I award you no points, and, may god have mercy on your soul

I understand that a single turbo is going to make more power... The goal of this wasn't to make a large amount of power, if that was the intention, I wouldn't be starting with a 3800... The goal here was to do something that hasn't successfully been done to this point. You can find Grand Prixs for $1000 all day now, why not have some fun and see what they are capable of? The only downfall is that the used market seems to be gone, so more fabrication and creativity will be required.

There have been several people that have twin charged the 3800 with good results. I don't see how everyone says the blower becomes a restriction. It's already moving more air than the engine can move so when the turbo comes on it just packs a denser amount of air into the rotors and I seriously doubt you would flow enough to make the blower a restriction since it's always going to pass more than the engine can use, now it's just getting more dense charge that's just passing through. The nightmare of running parallel and valving so the blower is not shoving air out of the turbo causing it to slow and even having a valve would cause issues since if you have one side that's 10 PSI and the other side is 15 PSI your net pressure is 5 psi. It's just like your fuel injectors if you have 45 psi at the rail at atmospheric pressure and you have 10 psi manifold pressure the net pressure in the manifold is 35 psi. This is why they use a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, that is 1:1 so that at 10 psi manifold pressure the rail pressure is 55 psi and the net pressure is still 45 psi. on 04+ they just run a constant 65 psi and use voodoo and black magic to make it operate correctly.... Apparently...

Jeff

I second the voodoo theory.

A boost controller could easily be used to match turbo boost to supercharger boost levels...

This whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion. Let's say I balance both at a relative 4 PSI, since it isn't supposed to be a high performance build, so who cares. I see no issues with boost trying to reverse through the turbo inlet. If it tries to, the blow off valve will let that air out, just like it does when a manual car shifts. If that occurs, I raise the PSI of the turbo to balance it out. The air isn't going to blow back past the rotors, which makes their restriction and force a benefit in this setup. This isn't rocket science guys. Boost is both relative and adjustable.

This wasn't supposed to be a thread about how awesome this twin charged setup is going to be and how peanut butter and jealous ItHurtz is going to be of it when it's done. I was just looking for tuning advice on adding a second mass air flow sensor.

Originally Posted by SgtMarshal

I would be really curious to see a ms3 with a good SD tune then you could ditch the dual maf and not worry about maxing the maf sensor

Thanks SgtMarshal! That's the kind of responses I was hoping for. I don't know a ton about MS, but some friends of mine use it. I will have to dig deeper into the MS sites and see what info I can come up with.

Originally Posted by Explicit_Spade

A boost controller could easily be used to match turbo boost to supercharger boost levels...

This whole thing is getting blown way out of proportion. Let's say I balance both at a relative 4 PSI, since it isn't supposed to be a high performance build, so who cares. I see no issues with boost trying to reverse through the turbo inlet. If it tries to, the blow off valve will let that air out, just like it does when a manual car shifts. If that occurs, I raise the PSI of the turbo to balance it out. The air isn't going to blow back past the rotors, which makes their restriction and force a benefit in this setup. This isn't rocket science guys. Boost is both relative and adjustable.

This wasn't supposed to be a thread about how awesome this twin charged setup is going to be and how peanut butter and jealous ItHurtz is going to be of it when it's done. I was just looking for tuning advice on adding a second mass air flow sensor.

Yeah you're not thinking this through having a parallel setup isn't going to work unless both devices are the same as in twin supercharging or twin turbocharging. Regardless of build the minute that you are flowing more air and making more pressure you are fighting the supercharger which is going to require more power to drive and it's just not going to work well at all, but good luck to you.

Jeff

Originally Posted by J57ltr

Yeah you're not thinking this through having a parallel setup isn't going to work unless both devices are the same as in twin supercharging or twin turbocharging. Regardless of build the minute that you are flowing more air and making more pressure you are fighting the supercharger which is going to require more power to drive and it's just not going to work well at all, but good luck to you.

Jeff

What experience do you have to come to this conclusion? There are plenty of twincharged (supercharger/turbo combination) set-ups that work.