How do Hondas make so much power with such little boost and mods?

[suitercrew]

This might be a dumb question but I watch "boosted boyz" on YouTube and have seen other channels similar that are basically all about Hondas and the main guy has a 680whp civic and its only real performance mods are a big turbo and an intercooler and he runs like 15psi. Stock cams, stock heads. I also saw a civic tonight that was superchaged and I was talking to the guy and he said it made 380whp and his only performace mod was the supercharger kit that came with an intercooler and its setup on 10psi. I thought he was full of **** but later I looked up the supercharger kit online and it advertises 380whp. I just don't get it I run 12-13 psi on a pretty well modified car with a 9.4:1 compression ratio and I would be lucky to see 300whp.??

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[Scottydoggs]

turbo power is how. what they are not telling you is these engines dont last 5-10 passes at the track. they they blow up and need to be rebuilt.

only good part of this is one guy can strip it down to a short block and lift it out the bay by hand lol

[fst]

alot of factors but one is engine design and how well power is made, another is type of power adder. with the L67, it makes pretty good torque but low horsepower with the eaton blower whereas some of the smaller displacement has low torque but make up for it in the horsepower (high RPM revving).

with the pushrod L67, slap on a turbo and the sky's (or in this case, the tranny's) the limit. there's more involved obviously but I wanted to put my $0.02 in.

[suitercrew]

turbo power is how. what they are not telling you is these engines dont last 5-10 passes at the track. they they blow up and need to be rebuilt.

only good part of this is one guy can strip it down to a short block and lift it out the bay by hand lol

Ya but they get tuned so you would assume their knock free right? I mean lets say 10lbs of boost from a turbo equals 100hp doesn't 10lbs of boost from a supercharger make the same amount of power minus the load of running it? Like 10lb of boost would equal the same amount of power no matter where it was coming from right? (Minus the load)

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[fst]

some of those motors are not built to handle boost (which is why they get rebuilt periodically).

turbo boost and supercharger boost are different and where in the power curve they each shine.

[Scottydoggs]

turbo blows away a blower. 10 psi on each is no where near the same thing. turbo your car, you now have 500 hp.

[suitercrew]

some of those motors are not built to handle boost (which is why they get rebuilt periodically).

turbo boost and supercharger are different and where in the power curve they each shine.

Ya, I guess I'm just starting to realize how stupid superchargers are. Especially for a fwd car that already has traction issues. High rpm horsepower would be way more beneficial then low end torque.

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[Scottydoggs]

a turbo can rip off the line hard too, just need to spool it up.

[suitercrew]

a turbo can rip off the line hard too, just need to spool it up.

Well doesn't the nhra use those old school blowers still? Do they just make so much power there isnt any reason to convert to turbo?

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[industrialfish]

Boostedboiz. But if you've been following him, he's on his 3rd block and 2nd transmission in about a year. He's also got upgraded pistons and rods as well.

[fst]

there's also various types of blowers lol.

[QUICKSILVER462]

Parasitic drag. A supercharger requires a lot of torque from the crankshaft to turn at high power levels.
A turbo on the other hand, does not put any load on the crankshaft, so that is more power to the wheels.

[suitercrew]

Boostedboiz. But if you've been following him, he's on his 3rd block and 2nd transmission in about a year. He's also got upgraded pistons and rods as well.

Ya I know, I was just talking about making the power. Obviously its apples to oranges but I could drop in stage 4 heads, a thrasher cam, a gen v with a 2.55 pulley with a fs intercooler running a 200 shot of nitrous and still wouldn't be making that much power. That's what I'm saying. Sure reliability wise anyone making that much power would need a built transmission and probably some bottom end work but I couldn't even make that much power if I wanted to. Maybeee if I put a 400 shot of nitrous through the motor 😀

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[suitercrew]

Does anyone know approximately how much parasitic loss there is on a gen 3 at different power levels? Or is there a thread or something on it?

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[blueguy91]

It's all based on what pulley you're running.

I remember a big thing Eaton did years ago where they said dropping below a 2.6" pulley on a GenV actually took more power than what you'd benefit from.

[mguzzo]

back in the day ZZP did testing on their SC dyno, IIRC spinning a Gen 3 with a 3.0 pulley took 100hp at 6000 rpm (engine crank speed)

The 3800 runs out of breath pretty quickly. Check out dyno charts, the torque curve drops like a rock after 4000 rpm.

remember too HP is a mathematical artifact of torque (HP = torque*rpm/5252). So a 4cyl making 600 hp at 10K rpm is putting out 315 ft-lb (pretty respectable at that RPM) where a GTP putting down 350 crank HP @ 6000 rpm is also making over 300 ft lb. But the small motor at high RPM has the ability to do more work (i.e., continue accelerating)

[suitercrew]

It's all based on what pulley you're running.

I remember a big thing Eaton did years ago where they said dropping below a 2.6" pulley on a GenV actually took more power than what you'd benefit from.

Ya that's why I'm still on a 2.8 I read about that and didn't see the point machining my snout to make no power so I just upped my timing to 19.5* it just sucks cause I feel like I already maxed out the car unless I find a bigger blower or sell everything for a turbo setup. I'm not cammed and don't have heads yet so I'm sure I could pull more power with that but having the supercharger already maxed is a pretty big limiting factor.

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[suitercrew]

back in the day ZZP did testing on their SC dyno, IIRC spinning a Gen 3 with a 3.0 pulley took 100hp at 6000 rpm (engine crank speed)

The 3800 runs out of breath pretty quickly. Check out dyno charts, the torque curve drops like a rock after 4000 rpm.

remember too HP is a mathematical artifact of torque (HP = torque*rpm/5252). So a 4cyl making 600 hp at 10K rpm is putting out 315 ft-lb (pretty respectable at that RPM) where a GTP putting down 350 crank HP @ 6000 rpm is also making over 300 ft lb. But the small motor at high RPM has the ability to do more work (i.e., continue accelerating)

Ya that's frickin crazy, i gotta build one of those 8000 rpm grand prixs that zzp did.

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[SgtMarshal]

could also be a twin scroll turbo setup, which really maximizes the turbo.

[buickman104]

Or just get an LS2 powered car.