Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
Towards the end Pontiac had alot of rebadged cars but in the G8s defense... Can you get a Holden here? No. Could you import a Holden here? Sure, if you have money falling out of your ass I suppose. Would you be able to drive it in the US? Probably not, IIRC they won't pass US EPA standards. Whats the closest GM car availible in the US similar to the Holden? The G8 is it if your in America. Thats the plain and simple truth. No other GM line has anything close to date. I'll own a G8 GT one of these days, make a nice family IMO and its LS powered too. Thats beside the point though.
As for GPs, Montes, and Impala being copies, that can be argued... When the Monte Carlo came out in 1995 (IIRC) is took the same frame and driveline from the Pre-Gen GPs which were around since 1988. Then later came the Impala. 1996 the Riviera got the L67 series 2 which the Grand Prixs and Regals got the option in 1997. Impala and Montes didn't get the L67 until 2004 when the next Gen Grand Prix was out. Hell the Montes used the 3.4 DOHC from the 1996 GTPs until 1998 when they finally got the L36 in 1999. See what im saying? Sounds like little kids pointing fingers at each other.
We can **** around here all day arguing who copied who, but it all seems to stem from the pre gen GPs which were out first. But who cares? Anyone care? Doubt it. I think 1997-2003 GPs are unique in there own ways and i wouldn't classify them like the G5 and the other **** out there. Not because i'm a GP owner, because of the history lession above. Same goes for even the 2004-2008 GPs too.
Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Iron Indian
Towards the end Pontiac had alot of rebadged cars but in the G8s defense... Can you get a Holden here? No. Could you import a Holden here? Sure, if you have money falling out of your ass I suppose. Would you be able to drive it in the US? Probably not, IIRC they won't pass US EPA standards. Whats the closest GM car availible in the US similar to the Holden? The G8 is it if your in America. Thats the plain and simple truth. No other GM line has anything close to date. I'll own a G8 GT one of these days, make a nice family IMO and its LS powered too. Thats beside the point though.
While this may be true, it still doesn't change that Pontiac went rebadge crazy and had no original vehicles anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Iron Indian
As for GPs, Montes, and Impala being copies, that can be argued... When the Monte Carlo came out in 1995 (IIRC) is took the same frame and driveline from the Pre-Gen GPs which were around since 1988. Then later came the Impala. 1996 the Riviera got the L67 series 2 which the Grand Prixs and Regals got the option in 1997. Impala and Montes didn't get the L67 until 2004 when the next Gen Grand Prix was out. Hell the Montes used the 3.4 DOHC from the 1996 GTPs until 1998 when they finally got the L36 in 1999. See what im saying? Sounds like little kids pointing fingers at each other.
What one division of GM is developing is open to the other divisions if they can fit it. The w-body was developed by GM's main HQ for its subdivisions to use as platforms for its cars. Pontiac was always the first to adopt it even before the designs were finalized. Remember how the airbox and such on the early 97-03 GPs was relocated? That's because Pontiac was jumping the gun trying to be first while the rest of GM were finalizing designs.
Pontiac no longer used their own engines. The 3800 is a Buick engine as everyone knows. All 60* engines (3.1L, 3.4L, 3.4L DOHC, 3.5L, and the 3.9L) were developed by Chevy's engineering department. Hence why they're called the "Chevy V6s". All LSx engines are developed by Chevy's engineering department, so the LS4 is Chevy too.
In general I think GM encouraged Pontiac to be like that so that they become the guinea pigs for the other brands. Test out new things there, iron out the designs, and use them on your other brands. That's what the history points to.
Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sabrewings
While this may be true, it still doesn't change that Pontiac went rebadge crazy and had no original vehicles anymore.
Point taken.
Quote:
What one division of GM is developing is open to the other divisions if they can fit it. The w-body was developed by GM's main HQ for its subdivisions to use as platforms for its cars. Pontiac was always the first to adopt it even before the designs were finalized. Remember how the airbox and such on the early 97-03 GPs was relocated? That's because Pontiac was jumping the gun trying to be first while the rest of GM were finalizing designs.
Exactly what I said above in different words.
Quote:
Pontiac no longer used their own engines. The 3800 is a Buick engine as everyone knows. All 60* engines (3.1L, 3.4L, 3.4L DOHC, 3.5L, and the 3.9L) were developed by Chevy's engineering department. Hence why they're called the "Chevy V6s". All LSx engines are developed by Chevy's engineering department, so the LS4 is Chevy too.
If you really want to get technical, nowadays the last 2 decades at least if not more there have been NO offical Olds motors, Pontiac motors, Chevy motors, etc. That was back in the day. Everything is now a GM motor period. So the 60 degree motors... GM, 90 degree again GM. Yeah there known as Buick motors but in real life there is no difference. Whats the difference between an L67 in a Regal vs GP vs Monte, vs Impala? not a damn thing. Back in the 60 and 70s each one would of been different had there own cam, heads etc and made different power levels too. Just using this as an example. There are no true Chevy or Buick motors anymore, its all GM. Personally, I could give a **** less if I have a GM, Buick, Pontiac, etc motor in my 99 Grand Prix, who cares? There all the same away! Ain't gonna gain **** if I throw on a set of heads and a cam from a Regal on my car am I? Nope. :th_laugh-lol3:
Quote:
In general I think GM encouraged Pontiac to be like that so that they become the guinea pigs for the other brands. Test out new things there, iron out the designs, and use them on your other brands. That's what the history points to.
Again we can point fingers at who had what and blah blah blah. But whats it matter? Its GM, In 2000 if you didn't like the looks and comfort of a GP, you got an Impala. So what? :th_thumbsup-wink: Glad they had the options to begin with. Wbodies were good cars and they still are. They'll be on the roads for many years to come.
Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Iron Indian
If you really want to get technical, nowadays the last 2 decades at least if not more there have been NO offical Olds motors, Pontiac motors, Chevy motors, etc. That was back in the day. Everything is now a GM motor period. So the 60 degree motors... GM, 90 degree again GM. Yeah there known as Buick motors but in real life there is no difference. Whats the difference between an L67 in a Regal vs GP vs Monte, vs Impala? not a damn thing. Back in the 60 and 70s each one would of been different had there own cam, heads etc and made different power levels too. Just using this as an example. There are no true Chevy or Buick motors anymore, its all GM. Personally, I could give a **** less if I have a GM, Buick, Pontiac, etc motor in my 99 Grand Prix, who cares? There all the same away! Ain't gonna gain **** if I throw on a set of heads and a cam from a Regal on my car am I? Nope. :th_laugh-lol3:
The differences in the engines is whose R&D did the leg work on the design, and then they take credit for it. Buick's R&D were the ones behind the 3800. Chevy's R&D was always behind the 60* V6s as well as the LSx engines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Iron Indian
Again we can point fingers at who had what and blah blah blah. But whats it matter? Its GM, In 2000 if you didn't like the looks and comfort of a GP, you got an Impala. So what? :th_thumbsup-wink: Glad they had the options to begin with. Wbodies were good cars and they still are. They'll be on the roads for many years to come.
I agree whole heartedly. I've said it since I joined this forum. I didn't drive a Chevy, you guys don't drive Pontiacs. We all drove GMs.
Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
pontiac did do alot rebadging . but thats only because it saved GM money in R&D. it costs alot now a days to design a unique motor for every car in every GM category. so to save money they designed a few motors and put them in the bodies that would support them. the auto game is expensive.
i love my pontiac, and my saturn. both great cars and im sorry to see them both leave GM.
Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
They may have been rebadging from their Australian brother, but the 04-06 GTO is a damn fine machine.
Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
What i don't understand is why they decided to make a Hurst Pontiac all of a sudden now that Pontiac is no more. I think the 97-03 and 04-08 Grand Prixs would have been great looking Hurst cars.
Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hacket
They may have been rebadging from their Australian brother, but the 04-06 GTO is a damn fine machine.
Agreed :th_thumb-up:
Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
Aztec is a rebadged buick rondeveus for those that need to know. In my opinion chev should have gotten rid of some other stuff before pontiac. GMC for one, they are chev trucks. Hummer needs to go, they are rebadge, heavy chevy trucks, sell off saturn, saab, opel (all in the works). They could slim down the pontiac line, I like the vibe but loose it, the G3 and G5 can go, next G6 make RWD and have those two models until a full revival of RWD pontiac cars. IDK that is my opinion cut other things than pontiac, but hey I am not the brass behind a bankrupt company ;-) And yes engine sharing is part of modern auto making. It makes sense, produce one engine that serves multiple purposes, just a few tweeks to tune it for a particular aplication.
Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
they should have killed buick before Pontiac
they also should have never dropped the names, names keep the feeling its going to be a good car (based on the old ones) and that it will be around for awhile and not just a one hit wonder
Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TurboTrav
they should have killed buick before Pontiac
Unfortunatly, Buicks sell like hot cakes in China, so Buick will be around for quite some time.
Re: The Last Pontiacs 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Planeboy18
Unfortunatly, Buicks sell like hot cakes in China, so Buick will be around for quite some time.
A popular mod on the regal is the chinese tail lights lol
http://tsikot.yehey.com/gallery/data...Image_04_1.jpg
