Thoughts and prayers go out!

[UR LOSN]

NIU is only a little ways down the road, and I have a few friends that go there. thankfully I was able to get ahold of all of them except for 1. just found out the one I couldnt get a hold of was too drunk to go to class....

Glad you guys are all ok, and my thoughts and prayers go out to the people who were hurt...and with their families. It was really scary to hear the news bulletin come over the radio when I pull into my work parking lot. I was watching the local news all night.

.. it hit me just as hard as watching the 2nd plane hit the trade center. I am still a bit freaked out by it. the funny thing was I was going to go down there today for lunch.

[SyntheticShield]

I just heard about this morning watching CNN before coming into work. That is one messed up deal I tell ya. Im glad you didnt go there for lunch.

[GeddyLee]

It truly is a sad state affairs in our country sometimes. You can almost bank on these things once one big shooting happens, there are always a dozen more arsehats who think its ok to go out and do the same thing.

The saddest part is that the cowards have to off themselves instead of facing the music.

It sickens me to my core! This why other countries like England and maybe Canada (not sure on their laws exactly) don't have such prolific* voilent acts like these we have in the US. The Police and Government have control over personal fire arms. Of course we have the 2nd Admendment that grants us the right to bare arms, but sooner later something needs to be done to stop or curve this type of thing from happening.

Not that I am pro-Gun Control, but something needs to be done. Just my 2 cents on that.

[FoSHO99]

Yes, it is sad, but there are a lot more of these shootings these days that don't hit national news because it happens so frequently.

I think larger campuses need to start looking into these problems, develop a way to investigate frequent crimes, students who pose more risks and develop a solution. If a college would actually take the steps to do this and cough up the money to make the campus secure, say metal detectors and checkpoints, that college would attract more students and tuition to make up that money.

[SyntheticShield]

I am by no means in favor of gun control, though I dont own one. This isnt a gun control issue. This is not a government, local or federal policy issue. This isnt an access to weapons issue. This isnt an issue of whether you have an 8 round or 15 round clip. It isnt even an issue of whether or not you have a semi or fully automatic weapon.

This boils down to one thing and one thing only. It is an issue of self-conscience. There is a problem when a person can look at a situation, whatever it may be and decide that it warrants or will be okay to take another persons life. That boils it down to a moral issue. The fact you find no wrong in taking such an action.

Say what you like, believe what you like (obviously I have and do) but the buck stops with ME. I make the final decision in the actions I take. I hear people all the time say "I had no choice" and that is a lie. You ALWAYS have a choice. You may not like the ones available to you, but you do have a choice. I put a gun in your hand, give you access to ammunition but YOU must still make the decision to aim that gun, then to decide to pull the trigger. If your conscience does not provide pause in that process the issue isnt laws, availability, access or any of that. The issue is a matter of one being able to reason such an action is okay.

Anyway, I'll stop at that.

[GeddyLee]

This boils down to one thing and one thing only. It is an issue of self-conscience. There is a problem when a person can look at a situation, whatever it may be and decide that it warrants or will be okay to take another persons life. That boils it down to a moral issue. The fact you find no wrong in taking such an action.

Say what you like, believe what you like (obviously I have and do) but the buck stops with ME. I make the final decision in the actions I take. I hear people all the time say "I had no choice" and that is a lie. You ALWAYS have a choice. You may not like the ones available to you, but you do have a choice. I put a gun in your hand, give you access to ammunition but YOU must still make the decision to aim that gun, then to decide to pull the trigger. If your conscience does not provide pause in that process the issue isnt laws, availability, access or any of that. The issue is a matter of one being able to reason such an action is okay.

Anyway, I'll stop at that.

Ok I will continue where you left off then......

Ok just do you propose then we fix the "moral code" of people who can not obviously understand the difference between having a choice and not having a choice? Obviously there are quite a few individuals in this world who think that way.

I know in the movie The Island, they tried to fix a race of beings to be bred as duplicates for their original for use in transplants etc. There have been other movies depicting the change of a mental status to make them more passive and less agressive. OBVIOUSLY those are just movies. And I am sure down in some deep dark cave there are experiments like this going on right now. But that does not solve the current issue of what we are seeing in our country today.

There has to be some other "go between" to stem this tide of violence, whether it be on a college campus or in the work place. Obviously there is a breakdown in the "moral code" and perhaps our laws that allow these types of people to roam free and have access to weapons to cause harm to innocent people.

I have to respectfully disagree with you, for now mind you, that fixing the "moral code" is something for the long haul and not an immediate fix to these problems we see today.

I think that just opened a whole can of worms Nothing like discussing life issues on a Friday Just makes your weekend look that much prettier

[archemedes]

the root cause can be traced to the exact moment that government supported and funded mental hospitals were closed. This case for example, he quit taking his meds, and because we are such a wishy washy society nothing was done, where 15 years ago he would have had to check in with doctors weekly if he was on the street, and if they found he wasn't taking meds regularly he goes into the hospital for a stay (and 90 days was not a max time either) my parents have worked for the state of Michigan in their hospitals for almost 30 years, and they see some of the people who are brought in, and as soon as the meds kick in they are released, some are rapists and murderers who quite frankly should never be allowed to roam free

[GeddyLee]

When you said "this case," are you saying this student had a past mental history? I must have missed that in the news reports if that is the case? If I am incorrect, sorry for misunderstanding. Just trying to understand your post better.

But yes I do agree with you about the revolving door policy. And the closing of the mental hospitals. I think a lot though has to do with greedy Health Insurance companies not wanting to pony up any money to help with these matters.

Just like with people who smoke. There are all these stop smoking campaigns urging people to quit. But when folks do and realize that the options to help them quit smoking are NOT covered by any insurance company, and have to pay out of pocket like $100-500 bucks for meds to help with it, they simply say screw it and keep on smoking.

That's whats wrong with our Health Care industry. Always proposing solutions, but never following through on anything!

[archemedes]

I'll post the article
iWon News - NIU Gunman Stopped Taking Medication
NIU Gunman Stopped Taking Medication

[GeddyLee]

I'll post the article
iWon News - NIU Gunman Stopped Taking Medication
NIU Gunman Stopped Taking Medication

Thank you!!! I did not see that article!! That explains a lot it!!

[SyntheticShield]

LOL. Well Im not going to open up pandoras box here. And to be truthful I am perfectly fine that you disagree with me. I by no means have all the answers and to have someone disagree offers a perspective I may have not considered. But, keep in mind this is a hot button topic with me so if I come across in a manner other than a friendly debate, I ask your forgiveness now and up front.

As for your statement for the other go between solution. I think this is a bad thing. Too many times we, as a society, want a temporary response (by definition a solution is not temporary, so I stop short of using the term) that takes something so horrible out of our presence so that we do not have to face it. Let us not dare face ourselves and what this issue really means. Let us not consider the hard choices that would be required to truly rid ourselves of such issues. How dare us offend someone in the quest to better ourselves, save lives, improve life, etc. Wake up people! There is right and there is wrong. The gray area exists only for those that wish to pervert that fact.

So instead of finding a 'go between' why not face the one thing that will pose the greatest challenge to us as society? Why not face the one thing that will make us ask the hard questions, face the difficult choices. Why not face ourselves?

I simply do NOT have all the answers, I siimply have my perspective. My perspective if shaped and formed by my beliefs and experiences, etc. But I will say this. We need to be far less concerned with whom we offend, what political group we may upset or any of that crap and more concerned with doing what is right and teaching that and making it a part of our being so that if we are faced with a seemingly insurmountable situation and someone does place a gun in our hands and give us access to information we can look within ourselves and say with authority 'This is wrong and not the solution'. Then and only thin will such madness as this end. It needs to be taught often and needs to be taught early.

This kind of action and similar actions, indeed all actions are a product of choices. Personal choices. Those choices stem from our idea of what is right and wrong. And as long as that sense of right and wrong is perverted, then so shall the choices that come from it and we will continue to see such actions.

[GeddyLee]

LOL. Well Im not going to open up pandoras box here. And to be truthful I am perfectly fine that you disagree with me. I by no means have all the answers and to have someone disagree offers a perspective I may have not considered. But, keep in mind this is a hot button topic with me so if I come across in a manner other than a friendly debate, I ask your forgiveness now and up front.

As for your statement for the other go between solution. I think this is a bad thing. Too many times we, as a society, want a temporary response (by definition a solution is not temporary, so I stop short of using the term) that takes something so horrible out of our presence so that we do not have to face it. Let us not dare face ourselves and what this issue really means. Let us not consider the hard choices that would be required to truly rid ourselves of such issues. How dare us offend someone in the quest to better ourselves, save lives, improve life, etc. Wake up people! There is right and there is wrong. The gray area exists only for those that wish to pervert that fact.

So instead of finding a 'go between' why not face the one thing that will pose the greatest challenge to us as society? Why not face the one thing that will make us ask the hard questions, face the difficult choices. Why not face ourselves?

I simply do NOT have all the answers, I siimply have my perspective. My perspective if shaped and formed by my beliefs and experiences, etc. But I will say this. We need to be far less concerned with whom we offend, what political group we may upset or any of that crap and more concerned with doing what is right and teaching that and making it a part of our being so that if we are faced with a seemingly insurmountable situation and someone does place a gun in our hands and give us access to information we can look within ourselves and say with authority 'This is wrong and not the solution'. Then and only thin will such madness as this end. It needs to be taught often and needs to be taught early.

This kind of action and similar actions, indeed all actions are a product of choices. Personal choices. Those choices stem from our idea of what is right and wrong. And as long as that sense of right and wrong is perverted, then so shall the choices that come from it and we will continue to see such actions.

First off….. There is no need for forgiveness my friend!! I understand your need for a final fix to problems like this, but as we have seen over the course of our history, to try and reach that final fix is not always attainable in the time needed. How many more lives do we need to lose before the final fix is in place?

Kind of like the war in Iraq, I am not trying to spin off into another topic but it applies to my logic, one solider’s death is one to many, but I support my troops and I feel for their lose of a fellow soldier. Same applies to innocent civilians being gunned down by people who can’t make the choice between right and wrong. How long do we wait for that final fix to prevent such incidents. Sooner or later it is going to reach a boiling before that final fix arrives.

But if you can have those go between fixes until that final fix is ready to be implanted, is that such a bad thing? Or do you wish to have more of these violent incidents happen. (NOT saying you wish to have them happen Syn. I just saying it as being a Devil’s advocate here) What is the acceptable limit? Other laws or prevention need to be put in place to help stem the tide.

I guess that is my point I am trying to make to your argument

[archemedes]

I simply do NOT have all the answers, I siimply have my perspective. My perspective if shaped and formed by my beliefs and experiences, etc. But I will say this. We need to be far less concerned with whom we offend, what political group we may upset or any of that crap and more concerned with doing what is right and teaching that and making it a part of our being so that if we are faced with a seemingly insurmountable situation and someone does place a gun in our hands and give us access to information we can look within ourselves and say with authority 'This is wrong and not the solution'. Then and only thin will such madness as this end. It needs to be taught often and needs to be taught early.

I agree, with that, we are too scared to offend someone to do what needs to be done

[19SE92]

I heard about it this mornning RIP and may god rest there souls.. Ur losn i'm glad none of your friends were involved.

[UR LOSN]

from what friends are telling me. he was a bit of a control freak. his Ex-gf is a friend of a friend...apparently she always thought he was a bit out of it.

[19SE92]

I see it alaways sucks when someone has to lose there life over bullsh*t..