Thread: Bandook's 01 Imp, top swap-ified

Page 1 of 32 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 631
  1. #1 Bandook's 01 Imp, top swap-ified 
    Donating Users bandook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,770
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    27
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    244
    Well, after just finishing replacing LIM gaskets in my na 01 Impala, I realized how easy it was and how much better the engine would look with an M90 sitting on top So...I've picked up almost all the parts for the swap. I will use this thread to consolidate my questions and hope you guys will be able to help.

    I found a 99 grand Prix as a donor. What I wasn't able to pick off it I have found on order. M90 will hopefully be bought this weekend and rebuilt soon. The heads are at the machine shop and I'm waiting to hear how they check out.

    I'm installing a fwi and speed daddy headers. I will mildly port the heads and intake myself. Basically just clean up casting marks and smooth things out. With these mods my questions are:

    1. What size pulley should I start with? I will be getting it dyno tuned. Can I safely start with a 3.6-.5? I've seen members with same mods running a 3.4 but I think they had an l67 motor. With the higher compression of the l36 should I leave stock pulley on? I want to make the most of my money spent at tuner so I want to buy the smallest/best pulley for my current setup.

    2. Talking to the tuner he highly suggested that I plumb in my IAT into the lower intake manifold. He seems to be a reputable GM tuner, and I don't want to doubt his strategy, I just haven't seen anyone do this. With my limited knowledge of tuning it kinda makes sense tuning the timing based upon the post m90 air temps, but I question things like heat soak and the iat fowling due to the dirty environment it will be in (the intakes I've seen are always full of carbon and oil). Anyone help me understand his logic?

    Thanks for now. I'll keep you updated as I go.
    Last edited by bandook; 08-09-2015 at 06:13 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. Advertisement




  3. #2 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    W Spfld
    Posts
    26,797
    Thanks (Received)
    50
    Likes (Received)
    82
    Dislikes (Received)
    1
    Chats
    98024
    Putting the IAT into the LIM is something I've seen done on TBSS's when they SC them. I don't believe our pcms adjust fast enough to take that as a benefit.
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Donating Users bandook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,770
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    27
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    244
    Quote Originally Posted by BillBoost37 View Post
    Putting the IAT into the LIM is something I've seen done on TBSS's when they SC them. I don't believe our pcms adjust fast enough to take that as a benefit.
    I'm trying to make sense of this. What refresh rate would the iat need if in the intake vs. Stock location? I have an extra IAT so I think I'm going to put one in lim and leave the stock one in too. Then ask him to tune it in both locations for a comparison. That way I can have some solid data either way. Perhaps he has some trick up his sleeve that hr is able to pull off a better tune with it in lim. His exact words were "I would highly suggest getting a IAT sensor plumbed in the lower intake manifold so we can pull timing based on IAT temps."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    GrandPrix Junkie
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    4,379
    Thanks (Received)
    12
    Likes (Received)
    53
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    0
    Do you have a way to monitor for KR? If not, then I'd start with the stock 3.8 pulley. You don't want to drop pullies on something that you have no way of seeing how much KR you have right off the bat or you'll be chipping pistons in no time, especially with the higher comp. Are you going to use a GTP ECU or modify your GT ECU?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Donating Users bandook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,770
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    27
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    244
    Quote Originally Posted by FordMan77 View Post
    Do you have a way to monitor for KR? If not, then I'd start with the stock 3.8 pulley. You don't want to drop pullies on something that you have no way of seeing how much KR you have right off the bat or you'll be chipping pistons in no time, especially with the higher comp. Are you going to use a GTP ECU or modify your GT ECU?
    Yeah I have a scanner. I use torquepro with Bluetooth obd adapter. That's how I learned that adding a fwi reduces knock. I was seeing up to -5 , now rarely see -1.

    This is an 01 impala, stock l36. It will be fully tuned. Tuner will flash my pcm well enough to get 30 miles to his shop. Then he will dial it in there.

    How are guys pulling off a 3.4 with such minor mods?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Donating Users bandook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,770
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    27
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    244
    Does this exhaust valve look usable to you? This is after cleaning it up. Should I just get new valves or try to save these?

    Its pretty rough, but can't say I've seen enough to know if its too far gone. Intake valves look fine though.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Killa Bee Scottydoggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    new jersey
    Posts
    39,716
    Thanks (Received)
    54
    Likes (Received)
    142
    Dislikes (Received)
    5
    Chats
    219244
    if thats pitting its trash.

    if its not pitted you could try lapping the valves. search you tube for lap lapping if you dont know what that is. its pretty simple. your just using a paste compound to grind the valve to the seat in the head, this way they mate up nice.

    98 Buick Regal GS, F body brakes, Caddy STS wheels, tinted tails L36 bottom end, lightly ported heads, 1.95 roller rockers, headers, gen 5 N* 3.0 pulley, FSIC, 42 lb injectors, a BrandonHall rebuilt trans, DHP tuned and AEM water/Meth injection https://goo.gl/gpV5kW
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Donating Users bandook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,770
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    27
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    244
    Yup its pitted pretty bad. Are these zzp stainless valves recommended? I can lap new ones into the old seats right?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Killa Bee Scottydoggs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    new jersey
    Posts
    39,716
    Thanks (Received)
    54
    Likes (Received)
    142
    Dislikes (Received)
    5
    Chats
    219244
    id just order them from rockauto or some other vendor before over paying at zzp.

    and you should lap the new valves for sure.

    98 Buick Regal GS, F body brakes, Caddy STS wheels, tinted tails L36 bottom end, lightly ported heads, 1.95 roller rockers, headers, gen 5 N* 3.0 pulley, FSIC, 42 lb injectors, a BrandonHall rebuilt trans, DHP tuned and AEM water/Meth injection https://goo.gl/gpV5kW
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Donating Users bandook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,770
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    27
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    244
    Started some work on the throttlebody last night. First thing was to put it on an immediate diet. First time I saw that hump I knew it needed to go.


    Then I cleaned it up a bit and painted. Don't know exactly how the paint will hold up to the temp swings, but its certainly better than it was.


    Now I just need to find the screws to the butterfly...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Donating Users bandook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,770
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    27
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    244
    Picked up the m90 last night


    Five minutes later it was opened up.


    Its in good shape. The case has some minor scratches inside, most likely from sloppy needle bearings. So I'm ordering new needle bearings and snout bearings. Wish it was easier to replace the front case bearings, but I imagine they will be OK. Now I've got to decide if I am going to purchase a press or trust a local garage to press them in right. I'm always nervous when someone does my bearing installs. I might ask a local guy to rent me some shop time and just use his press. The place that's doing my heads could do it but I can only imagine what they charge.

    I'm going to open up the inlet and clean up the outlet on the case, and of course clean it up and paint it. Still undecided if I'm going to plug the silencer ports. If I do I have some ideas that doesn't involve jb weld or epoxy. I've yet to see conclusive evidence that it makes the blower louder or more efficient. If it was guaranteed to make it as loud as a Whipple I wouldn't hesitate.

    The m90 came with a throttle body, so if anyone needs one let me know.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    GXP Level Member darkhorizon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    flintnasty MI
    Posts
    2,597
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    3989
    If your tuner cant get it perfect without it being on a dyno find a new tuner.... you can get a zzp pcm for 100 bucks and not have to mess with it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Donating Users bandook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,770
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    27
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    244
    Quote Originally Posted by darkhorizon View Post
    If your tuner cant get it perfect without it being on a dyno find a new tuner.... you can get a zzp pcm for 100 bucks and not have to mess with it.
    Where do I get the pcm for 100? On zzp's website it's 200.00 for top swap tune. And I have ran across many different opinions of zzps tunes, which kinda steered me away. However I'd love to get a good tune for 100! I could throw the extra money at rockers or something.

    Got the case pretty well cleaned up.



    Looks better than I hoped, which is good. When looking at it through all the carbon it makes it looked pretty scratched, but its not. Just the bottom had a couple deeper ones, most likely from the bad needle bearings letting it drag a little.

    Rear valve cover, L67 injectors and valve seals came in. Though now I've been thinking I want to get 60's for e85. I would for sure need a different pump, I don't trust the cheap aftermarket one i just put in. What is a recommended fuel pump? All I've heard talk about is Walbro, but I definetly don't want a loud pump.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    GTP Level Member 99GT2dr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cibolo, TX
    Posts
    542
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    117
    $200 for a "top swap" tune? Wtf?
    '11 Suburban LTZ
    '99 SSEi
    '99 GT
    '09 G8 GT
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Turbo is the way to go. REDCRAPGP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Behind you...sike made you look Bish
    Posts
    16,085
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    78
    So what's left as far as the topswap goes what other parts are needing


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Squirrels are my engine. I need a Ford Regal
    04 Comp G.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Donating Users bandook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,770
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    27
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    244
    Quote Originally Posted by REDCOMPG View Post
    So what's left as far as the topswap goes what other parts are needing


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    All L67 swap parts I have. Well, except balancer but I'm ordering a new one. Still waiting to hear about my heads. If they don't check out I'll have to find another set and send those back in. Gaskets, headers, bearings for m90 will be in this week. Ordered a few things from zzp: mps with 3.4, wiring, rocker bolts. Have a few things from amazon I'll probably order tonight: idlers, head bolts, balancer and misc bits.

    I was hoping to do the install in two weekends, but just found out we're going to cousins bday party that weekend. Kind of a bummer but at least Russians know how to party so it should be a good time So probably install first weekend of May. Unless I can't stand looking at a table of parts and take a day or two off work.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Donating Users bandook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,770
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    27
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    244
    Quote Originally Posted by 99GT2dr View Post
    $200 for a "top swap" tune? Wtf?
    Yeah... They charge an extra 75 for it being a top swap. Its all good, just makes the 400 dyno tune look less costly. Still haven't quite came to the conclusion that moving the iat into lower intake is a good idea. Wish someone could help me understand this logic. Everything I've seen on I at either has folks moving it closer to filter, or closer to throttlebody. I guess as long as the tune has it reasoned into the new location it shouldn't matter. I can see it being more useful under the blower because of the (in)efficiency of the m90.

    Its just funny that there are talks of moving it closer to COOLER air, near filter. On an untuned car all this would do is cause the computer to lean out the fuel trims, right? So it seems it would be better to get the warmest reading right before its combusted. Which kinda backs up putting it into the LIM. Am I tracking right here? If the computer is reading cooler air than what is entering the combustion chamber, that's gonna cause it to run lean, which creates detonation, which causes the pcm to pull timing. That's why the tuner said he wants to base timing on the LIM air temps?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    GTP Level Member 99GT2dr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cibolo, TX
    Posts
    542
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    117
    I think you're looking into the iat sensor too hard, don't have my laptop handy to look at the table, but it really doesn't pull much timing in the extreme hot/cold ranges that it does. I zero it out completely, less variables when trying to control your timing. We know the outlet temps are high, if that's a concern get an IC, lol.

    Regardless of the outlet temps, you start with stock timing and add a degree or two at a time until you start seeing kr, then back off .5 at a time til it's gone. Whether it's 10* or 1000* outlet temp, it's still gonna get tuned the same way, you just won't be able to add as much timing the hotter the temps are.
    '11 Suburban LTZ
    '99 SSEi
    '99 GT
    '09 G8 GT
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    Donating Users bandook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    1,770
    Thanks (Received)
    2
    Likes (Received)
    27
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    244
    Quote Originally Posted by 99GT2dr View Post
    I think you're looking into the iat sensor too hard, don't have my laptop handy to look at the table, but it really doesn't pull much timing in the extreme hot/cold ranges that it does. I zero it out completely, less variables when trying to control your timing. We know the outlet temps are high, if that's a concern get an IC, lol.

    Regardless of the outlet temps, you start with stock timing and add a degree or two at a time until you start seeing kr, then back off .5 at a time til it's gone. Whether it's 10* or 1000* outlet temp, it's still gonna get tuned the same way, you just won't be able to add as much timing the hotter the temps are.
    See, I figured I was missing something . Could you possibly find out how much timing it pulls at x temps? I'd like to have more info about this before I commit to drilling a large hole in my intake.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20 Re: Top Swap in progress, few questions 
    GTP Level Member 99GT2dr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cibolo, TX
    Posts
    542
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Chats
    117
    If nobody else gets to it before me, I'd be happy to. Not sure how set you are on the dyno tune, but that price seems close to what an hptuner suite costs, being able to do your own tuning sure comes in handy. I've had my powrtuner for a very long time, would never consider giving that up, lol.
    '11 Suburban LTZ
    '99 SSEi
    '99 GT
    '09 G8 GT
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. Advertisement




Page 1 of 32 12311 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Couple questions regarding build in progress
    By crbquist in forum 3.8L V6 Supercharged (L67)(L32)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-22-2013, 11:03 AM
  2. Top swap Progress
    By 01GrandPrixTURBOGT in forum 3.8L V6 Naturally Aspirated (L36)(L26)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-15-2012, 04:55 PM
  3. Top Swap progress
    By 01GrandPrixTURBOGT in forum 3.8L V6 Naturally Aspirated (L36)(L26)
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 09-14-2012, 07:04 PM
  4. Pics of my swap progress
    By NineD9GT in forum 3.8L V6 Supercharged (L67)(L32)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 03-04-2010, 01:44 PM
  5. Swap questions...
    By motohead in forum 3.1L V6 (LHO/LG8)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-29-2009, 11:12 AM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •