97 GP GT - Let's project a project car (from trailer to driving)

[penright]

Yesterday I bought a 97 Grand Prix GT. The car has 180,000 miles and is really rough. It looks like it's all there, but did not start. The battery was dead so I don't know if it will kick or not. Doesn't matter because the purpose is to mod it and see what's happens. I gave $350 for it.
It's is hard for me to mod a car I have to depend on as a daily driver. Now if I play with some pcm reprogramming and burn a hole in a piston, I am not walking to work. For me work is 100 miles round trip. With this car I will not be afraid to try somethings.

This is where you guy's come in, I can use some ideas on what to do. The purpose of the thread is not as much to explain how to do them, there are enough threads here for that, this is more what stages does it make sense. Kind of like reality TV, this will be a reality thread and you get to help make decisions So I will need to set some parameters so we know what is realistic and what is not. Thats not to say there won't be dreaming. I already googled "what it would take to make a convertible". And before all you nea sayers, remember just a dream, thinking out loud, and check out this picture (http://new.clubgp.com/gpg99/990916-14.jpg). When we start a phase of the project we can post it in the appropriate section and link to it. Remember this is more about the process of getting there, some idea of what a "kind of a car guy" can do. I can not afford a show car and if I could I am not sure 97 GP would be a good choice. This will be a good test bed for trying things.

I don't have a lot of money and I have one more semester to finish a degree. I know college at 53, it has nothing to do with making more money, it will not matter in my job, but it is kind of a bucket list thing. So after this summer time will be an issue. I also do season tickets for OSU, so some saturdays during football season may not be available. I am an IT guy, so this kind of stuff is my stress reliever. I do have a garage, but most of it will be driveway/back porch work. I do not want to leave the Mustang or GXP out over night. It's been over 5 years since the Mustang has even seen a drop of rain. I think one of the biggest thing we will work out is of to fly this under the wife's radar. I am going to set a budget of $100 a month, doesn't mean can't ask for some things for fathers day, birthday, anniversary, and such.

So, lets get started ...

The lady that selling it did not have the title notarized last night, we are meeting after work (6/14/2013). My friend is meeting me in OKC to drag it the 45 miles home. It will cost me a steak dinner at Ken's. I will update the cost list once I know how much. Once I get it home I will post some pictures. My retired driver is on 02 GP SE, body is straight and good shape, just has a noise that I thought was a lifter, but now I starting to think piston slap. Anyway going to send it to the auction so I can borrow what will fit. I know I want the wheels and tires. If the headlights fit, they are new. If the tail light fits, the 97 has a crack one. The interior is different color so even if it fits not sure what I can use.

97 Grand Prix Project Car Photos by penright | Photobucket

Cost List Running Total: $853

Cost of Car $350
Cost of getting it home (Ken's Steak House) $80
Shift Cable $5
Window Motor $10
Carpet $10 (Rough will see how it cleans up)
Alarm $5 (see if I can get fobs for it)
Title Transfer/Registration for 2014 $107 (Should I count it as part of the project?)
Crank Position Sensor $33
Passenger side Taillight $20
Sway bar links $5
Thermostat and Gasket $6
4 ($10 a piece) rotors $40
Deck lid latch $10
Both Door panels, spare tire cover, steering wheel cover, driver side, dash @ floorboard, all $15
headliner cloth and glue $20
V/C Gaskets $14
2 Red Flasher LED, 2 yellow LED for rear view mirror mods $20
4 LED door step courtesy laser projector Shadow lamp lights $13 (since this is a coupe not sure what to do with other 2) :-)
2 NEW Front Left & Right Wheel Hub and Bearing Assembly $60
2 NEW Outer Tie Rod Ends $18
1 Sway Bar $12

[BillBoost37]

YOu say you are meeting her on 5/14/13.. if you bought it yesterday, that might be an issue.

[penright]

YOu say you are meeting her on 5/14/13.. if you bought it yesterday, that might be an issue.

Thank you, it is fixed now. I have been debugging some programs and my sample data date was 5/5/2013. So my fingers were trained well.

[penright]

Here are my thoughts as of today, as you all know things keep changing. I ran across a GP at the local pull a part, that someone must have just replaced the front end and back end. It had new CV (don't think they would have fit my 97), really good taillights, with a blown motor. One thing I needed was a deck lid latch, this car looked brand new. One of the bearings is already gone. Since pull a part pulls the wheels and tires, I can't see how much play there is, unless someone has a trick? I was going to make a bar that I can bolt on, to see if there is any play, I have not had a chance to try that yet. Back to the story, the wire loom was spotless, my car is only two years older and mine is dusty. So for ten bucks apiece, new rotors, these look brand new ....20130719_200956_zps9a385f3f.jpg Photo by penright | Photobucket So no Fbody mods AT THIS TIME :-). I still need to do the front, but I will do it when do the front bearings and tie rods.

She may not want it, but I starting to think this may be a good car for the granddaughter. This is really starting to clean up. Once I get the front bearings, tie rods, valve cover gaskets, and finish flushing the radiator, I would not be afraid for her to drive it. Now until the cosmetics stuff is done, she may not want to. :-)

Got the trunk done. Here are the befores... 20130719_200956_zps9a385f3f.jpg Photo by penright | Photobucket ,
20130617_191711_zpsc06ebb95.jpg Photo by penright | Photobucket,
20130617_191748_zps500a8ed2.jpg Photo by penright | Photobucket
and the after 20130719_185956_zps7f14402e.jpg Photo by penright | Photobucket,
20130719_191717_zpse6f3da67.jpg Photo by penright | Photobucket
No rust in the jack, found a spare tire cover that wasn't busted, clean carpet, new deck lid latch, and put it back together. The old deck lid latch would buzz but not pop the trunk.

Do have one question, before the spare tire, there is stireform that holds the jack, there is a threaded piece that has a yellow rubber over the threads. What is that?

[Slick2500]

I don't know if you should mod a 97 GT. 97s are the bastard child of the 97-03 gps, they got a lot of left over parts from the previous gen cars the worst being the 4T60E trans.

[penright]

I don't know if you should mod a 97 GT. 97s are the bastard child of the 97-03 gps, they got a lot of left over parts from the previous gen cars

First, there's one lesson learned. :-)
I did not pick the car, it picked me by being "cheap". It's like we don't get to pick our blood relatives or they don't get to pick us. Either way, it is what it is.
I really did not like the color, but again, it is what it is, so now lets make it better.

the worst being the 4T60E trans.

So, we will need to figure something out without blowing the budget. :-)

[txslow6]

I don't know if you should mod a 97 GT. 97s are the bastard child of the 97-03 gps, they got a lot of left over parts from the previous gen cars the worst being the 4T60E trans.

Wut please elaborate???

[penright]

Thought about replacing the seals in the rack. The PS fluid was low, have not seen any drips yet, but my two 06's need it, this is the purpose of car, is to try something that I might not try on my drivers. I say this before I get the "Just get a reman" quotes. :-) Some of the questions I asked on the other thread, but I thought this one may have a different audience.

I found this thread on R&R, but nothing on replacing seals. As I said, I have two 06's that could use it, from some chatter it sounds like the experience may be the same. Here's the thread : http://www.grandprixforums.net/04-ra...ment-2868.html
Also another reason I think the experience would be the same, is I looked on rockauto and both kits seem to have the same part number, which leads to some questions ...

I wonder if anyone has any experience replacing seals?
TL, Would you have an exploded diagram of a 97 and 06 to compare?

I am a little confused about the parts.
This picture says "W/Magnetic Variable Assist" More Information for ACDELCO 36348363
and this one does not say either way More Information for DORMAN 905515
The 97 and the two 06's does not have MVA, while my 07 GXP does. So which kit is right for the 97 and 06s?

Also in the spirit of testing, I really stepped out on a limb. I bought new both wheel bearings and both tie rods ends on ebay. Both wheel bearing shipped was $60 and both tie rods shipped was $18. Again, before I get the "you get what you pay for" posting, this is the purpose of this car. I did get the bearings and the box, color, and from China reminds me of the ones I bought from O'REilly's. The only difference is there was no instructions on being careful on the torque for the axle nut. If I remember right it was 150 ft pounds. Still waiting on the tie rod ends. I would like to make a decision on resealing the rack before I replace them. Them being the wheel bearings, tie rods, and links.


Still got plenty to do, and school starts back 8/19. Next post, I may start a punch list.

Just a start, not all inclusive, and not in order ....
1. valve cover gaskets
2. flush, new thermostat, clean overflow tank, and refill with antifreeze
3. replace carpet
4. replace shifter cable
5. replace both front wheel bearings
6. replace both outer tie rods
7. replace both sides sway bar links
8. finish headliner
9. remove rear tint ( while all trim is out for carpet/headliner) Since everything is out of car, see if I can get a deal on re-tint.
10. look at and remove side windows, if quality is good enough, may just try and match the rear as close as possible. Not sure if I want to tackle tint just yet. The sides look pretty good, I think I will just do the rear.
11. install remote start
12. Add flasher to mirror upgrade.
13. Add Pontiac projectors to the doors.

[Kejross]

+1 for a running total... Wish I had done that on some of my projects



And pics Pics PICS!!!!

[penright]

Sorry about the lack of pictures at this time, they are coming. This is all I had time for this weekend. Spent all day Saturday getting church vans ready for Fall's Creek. After my "after church Sunday nap", I had to mow. It needed it and the rain was coming. Then we took my father-in-law out to dinner. When I got home it was raining. I leave to go to work at O'dark 30, so maybe I can document it better when I get home.

Here are the coming home pictures. Coming Home Pictures Photos by penright | Photobucket
Also I have never messed with Photobucket, so here is a test story.Coming Home Pictures by penright | Photobucket
Not sure which is the best way, will figure it out as I go. After getting it loaded on the trailer, I wanted my friend to drive me around the block, I thought it might be the last time I ride in the car for a long time.

So tried to jump start it, nothing. Then when I went to take it out of gear to get it on the trailer.My first fear is the Break-Shift-Key lock system. I am not sure what it was in 97 but my daughters 99's was a nightmare till figured out it was the key switch. Then my other daughter bought her own GP, don't remember what year it was, it was the spray shifter with WD 40. So with this car I did not know what it was going to take to get it rolling. This is when some of the story started to open up. The shifter moved like the cable is broke. Explains why the starter would not try to spin. Took the emergency break off, nothing, so then I started rocking it to see if it was in park and the breaks must have been rusted, because they broke loose and then it took off. So it was not in park and that explains why an automatic had it's emergency brake on. This is going to be fun, because my driveway is sloped.

We have our first decision to make. The 02 that I was going to send to auction, I had just put new (stock) head lights about year ago. As I said earlier I was thinking about swapping them with the 97, but then I started wondering, if I should leave them and see if I get more money at auction. I have not priced any aftermarket upgraded, but the stock ones, I gave about $100 for the set. Maybe I would be better off getting the most from the 02, then using it for some LED's. Although LED's may not be worth the difference, it might be better putting the $$$ into drivetrain.

Changing gears, I think I need to get it running before I start tearing it down. Don't you all think we need a good base line before we start? My friend did say he could not see the lever on top of the trans moving. So without looking right now I am guessing either cable or shifter. Either way it needs fixed someday.
Here is a thread I started looking into the best way to troubleshoot it.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/97-gp...ml#post1072344

[penright]

My friend did say he could not see the lever on top of the trans moving. So without looking right now I am guessing either cable or shifter. Either way it needs fixed someday.
Here is a thread I started looking into the best way to troubleshoot it.
http://www.grandprixforums.net/97-gp...ml#post1072344

Found the problem and got it functioning until I can fix it right. The Thread has been updated. Thanks.

[penright]

Sorry about the lack of pictures at this time, they are coming.

Here are the before pictures.
Before Photos by penright | Photobucket

[penright]

Work, School starting, and just other distractions, finally got to spend some time on the project. When you looked into the coolant over flow jug (COFJ), it was crusted with Dex. Pulled the thermostat out to give it a good flush and it was coated with brown gum. I will edit this with the thermostat picture later.
Before all of COFJ, Before Close up inside

Pulled the jug out and used some kind of soapy stuff I have for detailing engines. I threw in some small nuts and shook hard. Worked pretty good but there were some streaks that you could see. Then I added a red shop towel and that worked like a champ.
After all of COFJ, After Close up of inside

On a 97 the jug is on the left side and you need to move the air box out of the way. While I had it out and the seats and carpet out I replaced the shift cable. I don't remember what year I got the replacement on out of, but it was about foot shorter. I went ahead and put it in. It fit around the air box OK, but not as much room as the original. I will edit later with a picture when it is all back together. Right now I need to adjust it. With the shift in park, the trans leaver is about half way there. Also while I had it this far I replaced the rear valve cover gasket. While I was that far I flushed the heater core. I want to get some radiator flush and run through and maybe some seafoam, then drain and replace with new thermostat, antifreeze and fresh oil. Need to look at the list, but this should button up under the hood. At least till it time to start modding :-)

Picture of thermostat, you can see how gum up it was inside ...
Pix of Thermostat

[Kejross]

What size/specs? I am not against buying a new tool. :-) If not something special, I may have it. Back in the racing days we had some left handed taps. It was for when we made a rod with spherical ends, so as the bar was turned the length could be adjusted. I had a tool box stole from my friends garaged and lost them. :-(
[Edit] Found this posting from TL. http://www.grandprixforums.net/f-bod...ket-70243.html

Yeah that link has the specs, I couldn't find a 12mm drill bit anywhere so I got the standard conversion size. Don't have them here at my house but I wanna say it was like 35/64ths or 31/64ths. I just pop them on the drill press so the holes are nice and straight and the bit will pretty well center itself.

I saw in one of your post about getting an oven in your shop to powder coat small parts. At sometime I was going to ask about that. I assume it is a do it yourself powder coating. Where do you buy the material? I guess the process creates a mess, that is why I don't want to use the wife's. :-) How hard is the process? Expensive? Maybe when you get sometime, you can show me how.
Also, do you know where we can pick up CAN spray clear coat?

It's fairly cheap to get started and a pretty easy process. I buy my colors off ebay in 1-5lb packages. You buy a cheap oven off craigslist($50-75), then buy the harbor freight powder coat gun/kit (was like $75??), then you sandblast your parts, clip your alligator lead to the part or the wire hanging the part and spray your powder then bake at roughly 350 for about 15-20 minutes. The colors will have temp and time... The alligator lead runs a current through the part which attracts the powder to the part.

How do "delete the "5th soft line""? I did some googling and did not see it.

He used one of these, its just a short piece that connects 2 metal lines and factory line is rubber. Using the SS line helps keep pressure up and replaced old parts that are old. lol Not necessary but a good option to look at if you have the budget.
Old thread but good info regarding it here.

Actually.... I bought a stick of brake line(1 foot I think) that already had the fittings on the end and bent it to shape with my tubing bender. Did I notice any difference from all the braided stainless lines and 5th hard line?? No, not really...

Work, School starting, and just other distractions, finally got to spend some time on the project. When you looked into the coolant over flow jug (COFJ), it was crusted with Dex. Pulled the thermostat out to give it a good flush and it was coated with brown gum. I will edit this with the thermostat picture later.
Before all of COFJ, Before Close up inside

Pulled the jug out and used some kind of soapy stuff I have for detailing engines. I threw in some small nuts and shook hard. Worked pretty good but there were some streaks that you could see. Then I added a red shop towel and that worked like a champ.
After all of COFJ, After Close up of inside

On a 97 the jug is on the left side and you need to move the air box out of the way. While I had it out and the seats and carpet out I replaced the shift cable. I don't remember what year I got the replacement on out of, but it was about foot shorter. I went ahead and put it in. It fit around the air box OK, but not as much room as the original. I will edit later with a picture when it is all back together. Right now I need to adjust it. With the shift in park, the trans leaver is about half way there. Also while I had it this far I replaced the rear valve cover gasket. While I was that far I flushed the heater core. I want to get some radiator flush and run through and maybe some seafoam, then drain and replace with new thermostat, antifreeze and fresh oil. Need to look at the list, but this should button up under the hood. At least till it time to start modding :-)

Lot's of people(me for one) switch to the newer version of the overflow tank like the 99+ cars have. It gives you more room for intake stuffs on the side and in my opinion looks "cleaner". What kinda coolant did you go back with? I always made sure to get the "conventional green" they sell all kinds of green coolant but most of it is really still dexcool unless you get the real deal old stuff.

[penright]

So now I have the engine turning over, enough battery to start, and some daylight. Turned the key and nothing. Did check spark at the coil pack, no spark.
The good news is my wife drove the GT to Falls Creek this week, and I get to drive the GXP. Bad news my ODBII adapter is in the GT glove box. Not sure if I would see a code or not, so this morning I did some googling. I found this article on how to troubleshooting "a no start"
Part 1 -GM 3.8L Ignition Module Test and Crank Sensor Test (3X, 18X)
Don't have time tonight, maybe look at it again Thursday night.

Here a question.
If you don't have someone to turn the key can you use the old push button switch between to the starter solenoid? I know the key has to be in run but I did not know if there was a needed signal from the start position?


My wife is gone for the week, so I bought one yesterday, had no spark. Read the article. As in any troubleshooting, confidence. Can I use the push button switch and with confidence divide and conquer?

[71gs3504sp]

Hey

If this car dont work out I am looking for a red passenger front fender!

George

[penright]

Hey

If this car dont work out I am looking for a red passenger front fender!

George

If I ever sold it, it would be all or nothing.

[penright]

I mention when I started the thread that I had one more semester. Just took the last finial, hopefully the last finial of my life. This Saturday our neighbor’s boy is getting married and besides I still have some ice in the driveway. Soon though and I will be back on it.

For now since there is no more school not any football till Cotton Bowl, I need some good weather and it’s time to start backup.

To refresh the current status, I was replacing the wheel bearing, outer tie rods, drag link, and rotor. I got the passenger side done except for the tie rod. Those have come in.

Now just for some warm weather. :-)

[penright]

Been a while. The last time I worked on it was removing the tint, which still have some (tint) to go. It was the hottest part of last summer, put a thermometer in the car, this is with doors open.




Have not been back in it since. Between winter and time, this weekend I helping my nephew do a 3.1 lower intake gasket (95 Cutlass). He is also missing a outside door handle, which means a trip to local Pull-a-Part. While I was there I scope out GP's looking for air-conditioner control knobs. If I am buying other things they don't charge me for them. With as many that are gone, I am not the only one. So while strolling through the yard, I ran across this GP. Which brings me to this post, I wonder if there are any ideas I can glean from it. :-) There are lots of little details, you have to look close to catch them, but worth the look. :-)

[penright]

Played hooky from the studies on Monday to work on the project car (TPC). Glad I did, the tie rods ends were not the right ones. . Lets see if I can get the cheap mail order swapped out. Again, all this is an experiment. They are about inch and half too short, I am afraid that there is not enough threads. If you look at the picture the designs look good, I like the grease zerk, how the rubber boot is clamped on with a rings, and the weep hole to keep from blowing out the boot.
Both of Tie Rods Ends side by side


Did get the passenger side, wheel bearing, rotor, and sway bar links done.
Before:
Rotor, not much left
Sway Bar Link, this side is better than the other, it busted in half
After:
Rotor and new bearing
Sway Bar Link, Not bad considering from a salvage