New to your forum seeking info

[Marks63Catalina]

Hello, my name is Mark. I had a 2002 SSEi Bonneville and loved it. It was totaled in a bad hailstorm. Thinking of getting a GTP GP for a play car. Or a GXP if I can swing it. But the main reason for registering here is to find information. I'm building a 1962 Pontiac 4 cylinder motor. I should say, I'm hot rodding it. For those that don't know about this engine, it is a factory cast 1/2 of a 389. They needed a 4 cylinder for their new for '61 Pontiac Tempest compact cars and decided to recast the Pontiac 389 into half of an engine. They use only the passenger side cylinder bank and cast the drivers side closed. This is a pic of the block.

[img]http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...YLINDER001.jpg[/img]


As you can see it is a 389 cast in half. Long story short, I'm building one.

I plan to use an M90 supercharger that I just picked up at a swap. I've been reading up on it and finding good videos about rebuilding them and porting them. I've joined to go thru your threads to get as much info on making these things flow as much air as possible. I've disassembled mine and found it to be I exceptional condition. So it is a good candidate for modifying. Thank you for this forum and I hope to make good use of it. Especially if I should get into a GP GTP or GXP in the near future.

Mark L

[Fivefingerdeathpunch]

Holy wierd engine batman.

The french toast was GM thinking lol.


And welcome.

[Logan541]

Always heard about this engine wasn't sure any still existed, THIS could be FUN to play with.

[Scottydoggs]

must say thats a odd/cool engine. never heard of one before. good luck with it.

[Marks63Catalina]

Thanks guys. It is definitely a forgotten motor. Mickey Thompson broke many speed records with the old 4 banger way, way back. I have a friend in Connecticut that built one (and is currently redoing the intake system), turbocharged it and made big HP numbers. I'll throw up a link to his build thread. It's long but if you browse thru it you can get an idea of how he progressed thru the build.


http://www.pontiaczone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23147

This is a pic of mine mocked up on an engine stand. Just an old factory head in place. The intake is a tunnel ram that someone messed up when they machined it. So I cut it in two and bolted it on.

[img]http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...psad5af534.jpg[/img]

My plan is to hang the blower horizontally on the side of the block recess where the missing cylinder bank would be in a V8. Tuck it in nice and tight to the block, using an adjustable idler to set the belt tension on the drive belt. Looking at the blower I don't see any obvious reason that I can't mount it upside down. If anyone here has any thoughts or reasons that the blower can't be flipped please let me know. Being able to turn it upside down makes for a much more compact installation. The mounting plate will have a plenum made off of the blower opening with a 2.5 or 3 inch (probably 3 inch) outlet tubing that would rap up around the blower to an air to water intercooler. Here I'm using two of them on my current project.

[img]http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/t...RMOCKUP003.jpg[/img]


Then out of the intercooler directly into one or two throttle bodies on the tunnel ram. I will complete a plenum on the T ram plenum once I know the final configuration of the other components (actual placements of the blower, intercooler etc). You can see where turning the blower upside down could make the blower to intercooler much more compact and simple.
Anywho. I have a lot of work to do to the car I'm building in the pic so the 4 cylinder project takes a back seat to it. Once I can divert more money to it I can go faster. For now it's find a part here play with a part there. The short block will be fully built for big power. I'm a big proponent of aluminum rods so it will probably use them. Good dished, low ring land, forged turbo pistons, and splayed four bolt bottom end. The aftermarket is making some good flowing heads now and I only need one (cheap build hey??? yeah right, LOL). At some point I know the blower will ultimately be a bottle neck in the air flow of the engine. But I want to make it a fully street friendly engine, built for more but pulled back at first. My reasons for the blower versus a turbo at first is the 4 cylinder, with a good flowing head and a proper big cam, will probably be really lazy off idle. I feel the blower can make boost right away and not suffer much or any lag in response. This is more of a consideration with a manual trans, less with a looser automatic.
I figured I can push the M90 to its limits and if it is not enough, go to a turbo---or--compound supercharging. Leaving the M90 to help down low and using a turbo to squeeze more air thru the blower for a big top end flow. Lots of options.
OK, I'm done fantasizing. We'll see where it all goes.
My ultimate goal is to drop this into a Third Gen Trans AM or GTA. But I've been looking at mid '80's Vettes. They can be had real reasonably. That would make a fantastic platform for this engine. With some minor fabricating, the 4 can be almost a drop in.
Call me nuts. LOL.

Mark L

[BillBoost37]

You might be nuts.. but you are a cool build nut.

I've seen the M90 put into a lot of different configurations. Upside down shouldn't be an issue.

[Marks63Catalina]

If I can install it upside down it will be great. I think I better start thinking that way and continue from there.

Mark L

[Jomamma]

Very odd build.... but still its COOL AS ****!

Please keep us posted!

[LeadfootCJ7]

There was a thread not too long ago about this motor on Pirate and talk about how many old school salt flats racers used them. I will see if I can dig it up. There was a ton of cool info on the motor. I am sure there is a bunch out there on HAMB. Very cool and unique build.

[BillBoost37]

PS..if you get a GP to replace the Bonnie.. it's definately not going to feel like the same car.

[ctracer]

lol this build is awesome! crazy...but awesome!

[Marks63Catalina]

Bill, can you be more specific? Meaning. Are you saying they are just different, or one better than the other? Just curious of your statement. I really liked the Bonne. I've never even ridden in a late GP so I can't compare. I find that the price of used Bonnevilles down here (2000 to 2003) seem to be very low, also known as "affordable", heh. When I owned mine I always contemplated doing a fore and aft engine drivetrain swap. Since I'm a real Pontiac nut, it would have involved some sort of old traditional Pontiac motor. I moved here from WI in late 2008. Where I lived up there I had zero emissions testing to worry about. Down here I do have some restrictions. So I probably couldn't make it happen with the late Bonnes being too new. But, I haven't researched all of the swap laws down here yet. Maybe there's a way???
Anyway. I have a question about pics on this forum. In other forums after adding the [img] etc to the link they automatically display on the posts. Mine do not. Do I need to add something on this forum or?????
Thanks for your support guys, this old time newbee appreciates it.

Oh almost forgot. I have a side hobby where I play with song lyrics. If as song hits me just right I use the original musicality of the song but I change the lyrics for a whole different meaning.
I find a u tube video to play while you sing the new lyrics along with it. This is Fat Bottom girls that I changed to Fat Bonnevilles. Like I said, I'm nuts.

Fat bottom girls QUEEN

Fat Bonnevilles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMnjF...eature=related


Arrrrre--- you gunna to drive me home tonight?
Parrrrrrk--- next to our fav-o-rite street light
Arrrrrre--- you going to let it all hang out ?
Fat Bonnevilles
You make the cruising world go round

I was just a skinny lad
Never knew good cars from bad
But my DAD told me to drive fat Pontiacs
So I bought a big bad Bonnie
She is oh so fat not scrawnny
Heap big Bonnie-- you made a fat boy out a me
Hey hey!
Wooh

I've been cruising in my Bonnie
Cruised the city cruised the levy
I seen many hopped up hoopties on the way, hey
But their beauty and their style
Went kind of stale after a while
Take me to them ol' fat Bonnies everytime.

C'mon
Ohhhhh- lets hear your engine purr tonight
Ohhhhh--show them all your bright taillights
Ohhh--and you cruise with all you got
Fat Bonnevilles you make the cruising world go round
Fat Bonnevilles you make the cruising world go round

Hey Listen here
Now I got mortgages on homes
I got stiffness in the bones
Ain't no Chev-alets in this locality (I tell you)
Oh but I still get my pleasure
Still got my greatest treasure
Big fat Bonnie you done made a fat man o' me

Now get this
Ohhh--lets hear your engine purr tonight
Ohhhhh--show them all your bright taillights
Arrrrrre--- you going to let it all hang out ?
Fat Bonnevilles you make the cruising world go round yeah
Fat Bonnevilles you make the cruising world go round

Get in your cars and ride
Ooh yeah oh yeah them fat Bonnevilles
Fat bonnevilles
Yeah yeah yeah
Alright cruise 'em, c'mon
Fat Bonnevilles-yes yes

Yeah I'm nuts. I've got Ozzie Osborn too. LOL.

Mark L

[Scottydoggs]

how to upload pics http://www.grandprixforums.net/showthread.php?t=73960

the gp dont compare to a bonnie. its a nicer car on every level, im sure it weighs more tho.

nice lyrics for fat bottom girls lol

[Marks63Catalina]

OK, I'm used to typing in [img] then the link then [/img] to get my pics. The tutorial says to just paste the bottom full link. So I'll try that. My Catalina Gasser build.




Mark L

[Scottydoggs]

good lord. wheres the damn like button these days?

nice car.

[Marks63Catalina]

Ha ha, thanks Scotty. My dream build. 1963 Catalina. Engine moved back 10%, custom front frame clip with '57 Chevy pick up front beam axle, Ford 9 inch with 35 spline axles, Detroit locker, 3:50 gears, and narrowed rear frame rails with homemade long ladder bars and custom rear suspension. I'm building it with a Dearborn (Ford) top loader 3 speed transmission. GM bought these HD 3 speed from Ford because the big blocks were breaking their little GM 3 speeds. But will eventually go to an automatic when I'm done fooling around with the fun manual. Can't get serious with turbos and a manual. Early mock up of the engine compartment.



1960 389 block, punched out .090 to 406. Ohio forged 3.75 crank, GRP aluminum rods, Ross dished low ring land forged pistons, hellfire rings, 4 bolt splayed caps, reinforcing rods driven down from the deck to the water jacket bottoms to reinforce block decks against flex and filled to the water pump holes .KRE D-Port aluminum heads that flow 321 @ .600 lift. Solid roller turbo cam
with 251int/241 reverse duration (for the turbos) .610 net left on a 116 LCL, and 4/7 swap. Wenzler Gutsram tunnel ram intake with twin 750 E85 blow throughs getting the boost thru a ShotGun blower scoop, closed off/pressurized from the twin 76MM Turbonetics ball bearing turbos.
Just your normal every day Hot Rod build---LOL!!



Full car shot. Big project with lots to go.




Mark L

[Scottydoggs]

thats pretty sick. you do nice work for sure.

whats it run in the 1/4 mile? somehow i dont see this getting on the legal roads to often lol

[Marks63Catalina]

Somehow it got two pics of the car???? Don't know how that happened. How do you delete a pic once it is in a post?

Mark L

[Marks63Catalina]

It is still under construction, but everything I build has to be a street car first then a strip car. I'm having a hard time coming up with the big wad of money to have a proper full cage put in so it may be relegated to full street use. If that happens I'll stay with a manual and work towards a cage and then go to an automatic. I sold a 1973 Turbo'd Trans Am I built to 1065 HP to get the money to build this. But that money has run out and I'm stealing house money now. That does not set well with the misses. I retired and on a fixed income so it is not easily come by. This is the TA I turbo'd. It was an old late '70's custom show car that I built the motor and trans for and turbocharged it.


This is how I found it all disassembled and in a machine shed.



This is what it sounded like. I took it to the track but they would not let me run it because I only had a 4 point roll bar. I needed a full cage for them.




This is a run on the street. I had an electric exhaust cut out on it. This is an on ramp romp with it open.




See if these links all work??


Mark L

[Scottydoggs]

its official, i now hate you lol

i had a 70 formula 400 back in the day. its the one car i want to find and own again.


that things got some boogie i see........