New to your forum seeking info

[BillBoost37]

Damn Mark.. you make me want to hop a plane and visit my friends in AZ...and aim to bump into you while there.

Bonne has all the gadgets and goodies. GP's didn't. Your Ei had air shocks and could easily handle drag bags to keep weight transfer to a minimum. GP's.. nope, enjoy staring at the sky when you touch the throttle. Comfort, feeling that you have room in the cabin etc...it's all Bonne. The last generation of GP is much better than say the 97-03... but it was never designed to be an equal to Excitement with Attitude.

Ask any GP driver at the track if they can pump up their own tires after letting some air out... nope

Since you enjoy a serious build. A Bonne GXP had the Deathstar motor and the coveted 4T80 trans. If you look around, you'll see a thread or two where the GP guys would love to use a 4T80 to hold power. The 4T65 doesn't usually hold up to a lot of abuse (I know this from experience). Without too much hardship you can easily mate a 4T80 to an SC motor in a Bonne. Soon enough there will be a way to control it. Poof.. all set. Build that 3.8 as crazy as you'd want and the trans should hold.

[Marks63Catalina]

So the right thing to do would be to find a Bonne GXP and put a different motor in it. The North Star (or Death Star as you've named it) is not the optimum motor to use in there. The trans is but, what motor would you use? Just curious as I have little to no knowledge of the Northstars. I like the OHC structure but that's about all I know. Have never seen a build on one, or if anyone's actually built one??? What bell housing pattern does the 4T80 share with? Is the 4T80 also used with 5.3 LS motor in the GXP GP? I love learning more about Pontiac mechanicals, of all the configurations, not just the old traditional V8's (and's of curse, LOL).
Will a 4T80 adapt into a Fiero? Would it make adding an SSEi SC 3.8 easier? Would make a heck of handling car.

Mark L

[Scottydoggs]

you do know that Pontiac has not made a brand specific engine in like 20 years now. ( maybe longer) gm uses the Chevy engines across the board now.

them north star engines are in Oldsmobile cars and caddys too. my brothers got a aurora with a north * and the 4t60 trans iirc, it chirps second gear lol id say it feels as fast as my regal gs, both are stock.

[02NavyBlue]

Aurora's have the 4.0 unlabeled northstar v8, and should have the 4t80e. N/A gp's are faster to like 40 mph(because of the weight difference), the northstars power band is pretty evenly spread with a little more power at higher rpms.

[Marks63Catalina]

Yeah I know about all the corporate motors used over the years. Just haven't had much experience or even much reading up on them. I had a daily driver '87 Turbo T Regal that ran 12.0 and my 2002 SSEi Bonne so I'm more up on the 3.8's and 3800's. I even had one of the original Turbo T Regals. 1978 original 2 barrel turbo. But after playing with it for a while and getting less than spectacular results, I pulled it, built a banging 455 Buick, and dropped it into the Regal. It was a 11.0 second driver until I sold it. I go back to the days where the GM 2.8 and up V6's were not very good motors. So I shy away from them. I'm sure they've come a long way just that I remember back when they weren't very good. The Northstar is a mystery to me, but I always liked the idea of OHCs etc, just never heard of any real build ups. Can they be built or are they orphaned, meaning not much aftermarket support?? I like the idea of the LS 5.3 in the GXP GP's. But front drive can only go so far. I know they can be quick but they are hard to use with big power on the street. BUT, that would not keep me from owning a GXP GP or a GXP Bonne if I were looking to buy something.

Mark L

[Scottydoggs]

the way i see it the closest thing to them old school engines are the LS engines these days. 6.0 i had in my 03 truck, a 364 iirc has 300 HP stock. the new ones have more HP. its what replaced the 350 we all loved so much. and they had what 170 stock to 190 ish?

now that i think about it, my formula 400 had a YS code block, 350 hp and that was a 400 engine. so the HP is getting much better from the factory with these new engines.

them turbo regals were something else. a friend had one.

[Marks63Catalina]

I have a question regarding the M90 blower again. There is a chamber right next to the air exit that holds the two small holes that allows access to rear needle bearing cages so you can pry them out. Does anyone know if these holes are sealed by the bearings or if pressurized air can escape thru the bearings and into the chambers. I would guess (because I still need to get a stock bower to manifold gasket) that area is sealed with the gasket. Because I am not bolting this to an existing configured manifold, but to a plate that I can design, I need to know if I need to make the plate cover this area? I've also got this brain storm to saw/machine off the whole rear of the blower case where the throttle body flange is. Like half way up the inner slope of the entrance. This would enable me to get in there and do some good porting and then add a plate to the cut off section for a big throttle body. Since I don't need to use it in a stock configuration I have a lot of options. Kind a makes ya wanna say, HMMMMMMM!

Mark L

[Scottydoggs]

those two small holes in the bottom of the blower next to the larger one are for coolant to flow to the TB. id think you could leave them as is being no coolant is ever gonna flow there now. or tap and plug them. we seal the lim quite often for these 2 holes so theres no chance of a leak in the middle of the blower and lim, or the tb.

[Marks63Catalina]

Actually the two holes I'm talking about are up in a chamber directly under the inner intake "slope". They are behind the rear needle bearings that the rear of the rotors ride in. They are there to facility pushing out the needle bearings during a rebuild. I'm wondering if the bearings allow pressurized air through them that would escape thru those holes to atmosphere. I have to get a look a the gasket and an intake manifold to see if that chamber gets sealed off. In the pic you can see the chamber above the air exit (because the case is on end). That is the chamber that the holes are in.



Just wondering if I'm going to have to take it into consideration when I make the bottom plate. That case is just riddled with passages and holes. I have to investigate every opening to make sure everything is sealed in the end.

Mark L

[Scottydoggs]

the rotor bearings usually you need to drill and tap holes in the back of the case, then put a grease zirk in the taped hole, and use a grease gun to push the bearings out.

this is a gen 5 gasket on a gen 3 lim, its the first pic i found but it shows what gets covered and what dont. i think your gonna need some kind of plate to mount it to. but hell your the fab artist not me lol

[hollilynn]

I just creamed myself looking at the Trans Am. Like literally. I would murder someone for that car. Totally split their head with an axe.

[Marks63Catalina]

LOL. I should have called you first, I could have run the payback WAYYY up, LOL.
I sold the car to a gentleman that contacted me from Delaware. He told me I wanted to sell the car to him. I said no I didn't. He gave me a number I could not refuse--and it went to Delaware!! LOL.
This is a picture/car forum that I posted the Trans Am on. Back before the turbo Iran a tunnel Ram with twin 600's. And twin plates for nitrous using a 150 shot. This is a little story I wrote the night I ran my best times. 10.2 @ 133 MPH.

The story and a video of the run from that story.

http://www.americantorque.com/page/1/63/

I had a great time that night.

Mark L

[Marks63Catalina]

Still new to the nuances of the blowers. I keep seeing the Gen V references. What did it come on? Anyone know the differences from a Gen 4? I saw a u tube vid about a ported Gen V and it did have some different shapes in the air inlet where it goes over the edge into the rotors. But I didn't know if it was a design change in the Gen V compared to a Gen 4 or if the guy had made the change during the porting??? Thanks for any info on the Gen V.

Mark L

[hollilynn]

I have a Gen5 (96 GTP 3.4L DOHC). I wouldn't trade it for the world. I haven't dug into the engine. Just got it back after throwing a sweet tranny in it and crashed it last week (tie rod snap). It's in the repair process. The guys on here are giving me some good advise for when I delve into the motor. With everything crammed in there the way it is (had to drop the motor four inches just to get the inner tie rod off), it's not going to be an easy task.

[Scottydoggs]

no, hes talking the m90 blower, theres the 97-03 gen 3 m90, and then theres the m90 gen 5 blower found on the 04 cars.

the only difference is the gen 5 is more efficient over the gen 3

[Marks63Catalina]

OK that is what I was wondering about. What did the Gen V come on? Scotty said the '04's. Is that the only years or all SC 3.8's until they stopped making Pontiacs (2009)? What was the power increase of the 04's over the 03's with the Gen V blower? Were there any other upgrades that came with the '04's in addition to the larger blower?
You guys are really catching me up on the GTP/GXP cars now. Something I needed to do. Thank you.

Mark L

[BillBoost37]

The bearing holes seal with the bearing caps that hold the bearings. No worries about pressurizing them. A lot of guys remove that back edge when using an intercooler in order to have more surface area. You'll be fine if they are exposed to pressure.

The Gen 3 M90 is what you have in the pics. Gen 4 was skipped in 3800land, and I'm unsure if it was actually used on anything. Gen V M90 is more efficient and found on the 04-08 charged Grand Prix's. How much more efficient? It's in the air.. supposedly it's about 20 hp, although other slight improvements were made in the 04-08 motor. The M90 designation is the amount of cubic inches of air per revolution of the blower that it moves. Both Gen 3 and Gen V move the same amount of air.

Ideally, you'd build the snot out of a 3.8L, mate it to the 4T80. These motors will put out a lot of HP relatively cheap.
The 5.3L GXP/Impala/etc all recieved the 4T65E with minor upgrades. One can tear apart a 4T65 pretty easily.. just let me drive.

Holli.. it sounds like you don't have the right tool for the job. I haven't ever come across having to drop a cradle or motor for a tie rod on any of the GP's/GM bodied cars.

[Marks63Catalina]

Thank you for the clarification on the bearing hole sealing. I assume the bearings also seal the holes then. Great. Can you tell me more about this comment, "A lot of guys remove that back edge when using an intercooler in order to have more surface area", not sure exactly what you alluded to. My guess is the short separating wall between the air exit opening and the closed chamber behind the wall?? (Where the bearing removal holes are). I just want to understand everything clearly. I've found out to many times in the past that interpretation and the actual meaning of a statement don't always coincide.
Were the 4T80s only in the Cadillacs and the V8 GXP Bonnie's? Now I wonder if a GXP GP is prone to failure if moneys are not spent right away on the trans??
Does anyone know the gear ratios of the two transmissions? The 4T60/65 and the 4T80? I know those two designations in the RWD world are distinctly different transmissions with vastly differing ratios. Just wondering where the ratios are on the front drive parts. I see some articles about the F40 6 speed from the G6. That would be a great street car. Are they very strong or kind of a mid strength trans? I love learning more about these cars.

Mark L

[Scottydoggs]

this on has the H bar removed.


and this one its stock. most remove this when inter cooling.




http://rivperformance.editboard.com/...gen-iii-blower

[Marks63Catalina]

I thought I'd throw up these pics of my turbo install so far. I had taken my up pipes in to my welder to get finished but they were not welded yet (busy finishing another project) so I went and brought them home for the weekend so I could mock it all up. My son is coming over for Christmas so I wanted to kind of put it all together to show him. So I got pics.
Passenger side up pipe and turbo mounted.

Drivers side up pipe installed and turbo mounted.

Everything together and clamped in place. Intercoolers with turbo to intercooler pipes. The intercooler heat exchanger. The intercooler water tank clamped above the intercoolers. And a couple of aluminum pipes just inserted into the blower scoop to simulate how they will run/look.

And a front shot.

Merry Christmas everybody.
Mark L