Bogging, Hesitation, Hard shifts

[Linebacker]

So this is pretty much a follow through from this other thread i piggybacked on for a little while
here the thread if u wanna read it.

http://www.grandprixforums.net/weird...ing-65647.html

So i got a 2005 Grand prix gtp comp
i have replaced plugs and wires, tranny fluid and filter

So my issue is that when i first start my car 85% of the time it will drive like its bogged down and will hesitate to shift, when it finally does shift out of first its around 3-3500 rpm and its a hard shift. Its feels like your starting out from 0 in third gear pretty much. Also a sign i have noticed if its going to do this is the car will have a hard start when i fire it up, And there is like a 2-3 second delay if i go from reverse to forward before it engages. If i put the car in park or neural and restart it, the problem is completely gone and the car runs perfect. So i know its not plugs or wires or anything like that, and i don't see how it could be mechanical seeing how restarting the car fixes the problem.

So i looked around on here and found a guy who had the same issue, His MAF was the problem, So i ordered a new AC delco MAF from rockauto, I put it in the car and the problem went away for about a week. Now its started to come back, Ive driven around with the MAF unplugged and the problem is gone, So i know it has something to do with the MAF, Ive checked the wiring and cleaned the connector and its all good. So Im completely out of ideas on this issue, Any ideas?

[heavydtheogre]

Have u cleaned the Throttle body?
or the inside of the intake?
If u can , find someone with a scanner, or something to view the sensors while the car is running.

[REDCRAPGP]

Try cleaning your throttle body. If it runs ok w/o the MAF been plugged in it could be a dirty TB or defective MAF...I would try that first then if you have the extra cash go to advance and get a MAF...try it out and then return it and then contact Rockauto for a replacement.

[FriboRage]

Have u cleaned the Throttle body?
or the inside of the intake?
If u can , find someone with a scanner, or something to view the sensors while the car is running.

Just wanna pick this out... do not spray carb cleaner into the intake on a supercharged car, you'll damage the coating on the rotors.. if you must clean it inside, just wet a towel with carb cleaner and wipe around as far in as you can reach.

For best results, remove the tb from the vehicle, it takes 5 minutes, 4 bolts... and it's super easy, and it makes it so much better of a clean cause you get both sides with no problems.

[REDCRAPGP]

^ Amen. Take the TB off before you try to clean it

[Linebacker]

Yepp already cleaned the TB, i removed it and cleaned it also cleaned inside of the intake with a rag, also replaced air filter, and Seafoamed. I dont have an advance, Im in canada where auto parts are not cheap, To pick one up at a local parts store will cost about 140.00, i would have to send this one back to get a new one with rockauto.

[Linebacker]

Update*

Okay i got a used MAF from a 2005 Grand prix gtp at a junkyard, guaranteed to work, I hooked it up and the problem was there, So i took it back and hooked up my old one, No issues at first but it came back after a short trip to the store, I disconnected the MAF and it went away again. Im totally confused

[Scottydoggs]

are you getting a maf code?

the wires could also be cracked a bit, even the smallest amount of wire showing is no good.

if you un plug the maf and bend the wires back at the plug make sure its all tight. the wires sit over the cross over pipe and get baked, dry up and crack the insulation off sometimes.

[Linebacker]

Only get a MAF code when its unplugged, Some of the tape around the wires came off near where it plugs in, i took all the tape off to check the wires, it all looks good and i retaped them, The connection looks good too, Friborage mentioned something about the connection not fitting properly and he removed something to make it fit better, but not sure what he means.

[Scottydoggs]

you got a gremlin i see. i hate electrical problems. im dealing with one myself.

[Linebacker]

Well i am still trying to fix this problem, I removed the moisture seal from the MAF plug because it might of been causing the plug not to fully connect, That did not fix it. Im totally lost where to go from here, only things i have noticed is it only does it once a day and always when its the first start. it will do it when i go to work but be fine the other 4-5 times i go out that day. And if i go on a long drive the night before it does not do it the next morning. Im pretty much 100% sure its the MAF because the issue is gone when i leave it unplugged but is there any other small possibilities of it being something else? i am willing to try anything. Could a bad TPS or upsteam O2 cause this?

[Timing]

ugh having the same issue on my 04 with no codes and ive cleaned the maf pvc and tb spotless

[Linebacker]

Now there's a new twist, My car will never fire on the first try, Even if i try to let it prime by leaving the key in the on position for a few seconds before cranking. It sounds like it fires on a few cylinders the car shakes a bit and than it dies, Second try and it fires up perfectly. But if i disconnect the MAF it goes away... . I hate this maf i almost want to just leave it unplugged. Does anyone have any CRAZY or Unlikely fixes to this problem? i will try anything at this point. I'm actually even changing the spark plugs tomorrow even tho i did it 4 months just so i feel like im trying something

[ShadowSwept]

I had similar issues; cleaned the TB, installed a new MAF, seafoamed, etc. but the problem persisted in some form. I disconnected the forward O2 and it runs perfectly, so I have a new O2 in the mail.

Worth a shot, I guess?

[chicagochuck]

Now there's a new twist, My car will never fire on the first try, Even if i try to let it prime by leaving the key in the on position for a few seconds before cranking. It sounds like it fires on a few cylinders the car shakes a bit and than it dies, Second try and it fires up perfectly. But if i disconnect the MAF it goes away... . I hate this maf i almost want to just leave it unplugged. Does anyone have any CRAZY or Unlikely fixes to this problem? i will try anything at this point. I'm actually even changing the spark plugs tomorrow even tho i did it 4 months just so i feel like im trying something

I was having similar, problems I had Maf code (circuit low), so I changed the maf to a bwd brand and it would start and cut off immediately and rpm gauge would rev up on its own. I went to the website and it had quite a few bad reviews..I took the Maf sensor back and got a Cardone brand Maf. It seems to not do the start up and cutting off so far... I just changed it today, so I will see what happens.

Secondly The thing that I noticed with both new mafs (not sure if the car was doing it before because I bought the car with a bad maf to begin with.) NOT sure if its maf related or not. But When i get to 20 mph the engine kinda clunks, its very prominent if I'm tapping the gas constantly until i get pass 20 mph at the 15- 20 mph mark it will clunk very noticeably... I just drove it and it did not do it..not sure if its a temperature thing. I also have a po420 code not sure if that's causing it...I have no other codes stored

[chicagochuck]

I had similar issues; cleaned the TB, installed a new MAF, seafoamed, etc. but the problem persisted in some form. I disconnected the forward O2 and it runs perfectly, so I have a new O2 in the mail.

Worth a shot, I guess?

Did you have an 02 code?

[Linebacker]

I just ordered a new bank 1 O2 sensor. Interesting enough the guy i bought the car from said he just changed the upstream sensor cuz it threw a code and im thinking he probably got the cheapest no name brand one possible because he knew he was selling the car. So i just ordered a denso OEM one.

[Linebacker]

*update

Alright so i pulled my plugs and checked the gap seeing how i never checked before i put them in because ive never had to before, I found that the gaps were all over the place, between .40 and .75, I already bought new AL 606 plugs so instead of just gapping the old ones i gapped the new ones to .60 and put them in. Next day the problem was back, So that was not it.

After that my new AC delco o2 sensor came in the mail, So changed out the old one, Next day... Problems back, So now im back at square one again, I phoned a shop in town that specialises in car electronics, They said they could check and test every individual wire from the MAF to to the PCM but it would be 2 hours labor which is about $220 so any other ideas before i try that?

[Linebacker]

Well its been another month and a half and the issue is still present, I held off on taking it to the shop that specializes in electronics because the cost of the diagnostics they wanted to perform kept soaring and they kept saying they might come back with nothing. So i took it to the GM dealership today,They said they could do a ride along and try to diagnose the issue. As long as the car is not restarted from when i first start it in the morning the issue is present and constant so it was easy to recreate the issue for them.

I demonstrated the hard shifting from 1st to 2nd gear and the hesitation it gets around 2000rpm, And how it climbs to about 3-4000 rpm before shifting. And than i restarted the car and showed how it would now shift perfect. After we got back to the shop the Tech offered two explanations both of which make no sense to me and maybe u guys can help.

He said the its either a sticking valve body in the transmission OR a transmission pressure issue. He said these would both go away by restarting the car and not return until the next day.. Which makes no sense to me... Also i mentioned that if i unplug the MAF sensor the problem goes away and never returns. He Said this also supports his sticking valve body/pressure theory. I do not see a connection but maybe you guys do, It just seems weird that the suggestions offered happen to be costly transmission work.
'

[SlowNA06]

I phoned a shop in town that specialises in car electronics, They said they could check and test every individual wire from the MAF to to the PCM but it would be 2 hours labor which is about $220

When I had electrical issues with my EGR, I bought a digital multimeter from WalMart for $11 and it was a piece of cake once I got a diagram that identified each wire. Testing every wire from the MAF should take about 30 minutes, not 2 hours. I'll go ahead and say that it's a skill all of us should have, and for $11, why not?

Part 1 -MAF Sensor Test: GM 3.3L, 3.8L