Trailer Hitch Recommendation 2000 GTP any Cautions?

[Capt Fiero]

Ok so we have a 2000GTP, and after a long road trip, I found out the suspension is not really strong enough in the back to handle as much cargo as I figured it would. We had about 600lbs of tools in the trunk and 400lbs of Luggage and Passengers in the car. Felt like I was smacking the bump stops at every large bump. I have a small utility trailer that I normally put behind my 88 Fiero GT with a 2.8 N/A 5spd, and have had no major issues towing at up to 120mph with the trailer on the back loaded. No I am not exaggerating or kidding, and I don't do this every time I tow, but I wanted to see how the trailer reacted at extremes. Video link http://captfiero.com/videos/mycar/speedtest.wmv


I did some reading on here and people have worries about the 4th gear in the trans, which really does concern me, however for the most part we don't usually put more than about 500-750lbs of stuff on the trailer, its only rated for a max capacity of 1500lbs. I use it mostly for freeway runs between Portland Oregon and Surrey B.C.

The car is pretty much stock, we just did a bunch of little things last week, fresh oil change, new plugs, wires, installed a cone filter. Was going to do the trans fluid but after pulling the dipstick it was a nice red orange and smelled fresh so I left it for the time being.

So if you have a hitch or know someone that does, where did they get their hitch from, what did it cost. I'll be doing the install myself as its not exactly hard to install a hitch, I have done a few hitch installs on Fiero's.

[Iceman6669]

Ok so we have a 2000GTP, and after a long road trip, I found out the suspension is not really strong enough in the back to handle as much cargo as I figured it would. We had about 600lbs of tools in the trunk and 400lbs of Luggage and Passengers in the car. Felt like I was smacking the bump stops at every large bump. I have a small utility trailer that I normally put behind my 88 Fiero GT with a 2.8 N/A 5spd, and have had no major issues towing at up to 120mph with the trailer on the back loaded. No I am not exaggerating or kidding, and I don't do this every time I tow, but I wanted to see how the trailer reacted at extremes. Video link http://captfiero.com/videos/mycar/speedtest.wmv


I did some reading on here and people have worries about the 4th gear in the trans, which really does concern me, however for the most part we don't usually put more than about 500-750lbs of stuff on the trailer, its only rated for a max capacity of 1500lbs. I use it mostly for freeway runs between Portland Oregon and Surrey B.C.

The car is pretty much stock, we just did a bunch of little things last week, fresh oil change, new plugs, wires, installed a cone filter. Was going to do the trans fluid but after pulling the dipstick it was a nice red orange and smelled fresh so I left it for the time being.

So if you have a hitch or know someone that does, where did they get their hitch from, what did it cost. I'll be doing the install myself as its not exactly hard to install a hitch, I have done a few hitch installs on Fiero's.

#1.. ... You should never tow anything at that speed.... EVER....
#2. You should NEVER tow in 4th or OD. Unless you have a diesel truck.
#3. I have a buddy who had a hitch on his 2000 GTP and all he ever pulled with it was his jetski. CAN you do it. YES. Should you do it. Prolly not.

[matt5112]

Our transmissions suck (fourth gear in particular is pretty weak unless its been replaced with a hardened shaft or came with it factory, some 03's and 04+ only), rear springs suck (sag to the max, increases camber, increases tire wear etc etc etc), struts all around suck, especially when old (less control of vehicle and that which you are towing).

Kinda a recipe for a towing disaster really.

[matt5112]

THIRD (3): This position is also used for normal
driving, but it offers more power and lower fuel
economy than AUTOMATIC OVERDRIVE (D).
Here are some times you might choose THIRD (3)
instead of AUTOMATIC OVERDRIVE (D):

When driving on hilly, winding roads.

When towing a trailer, so there is less shifting
between gears.

When going down a steep hill.

When driving in non-highway scenarios
(i.e. city streets, etc.).

Towing a Trailer
CAUTION:
If you don’t use the correct equipment and drive
properly, you can lose control when you pull a
trailer. For example, if the trailer is too heavy,
the brakes may not work well -- or even at all.
You and your passengers could be seriously
injured. You may also damage your vehicle; the
resulting repairs would not be covered by your
warranty. Pull a trailer only if you have followed
all the steps in this section. Ask your dealer for
advice and information about towing a trailer
with your vehicle.
Your vehicle can tow a trailer if it is equipped with the
proper trailer towing equipment. To identify what the
vehicle trailering capacity is for your vehicle, you
should read the information in “Weight of the Trailer”
that appears later in this section. But trailering is
different than just driving your vehicle by itself.
Trailering means changes in handling, durability and
fuel economy. Successful, safe trailering takes correct
equipment, and it has to be used properly.

That’s the reason for this part. In it are many
time-tested, important trailering tips and safety rules.
Many of these are important for your safety and that
of your passengers. So please read this section carefully
before you pull a trailer.
Load-pulling components such as the engine, transaxle,
wheel assemblies and tires are forced to work harder
against the drag of the added weight. The engine is
required to operate at relatively higher speeds and under
greater loads, generating extra heat. What’s more, the
trailer adds considerably to wind resistance, increasing
the pulling requirements.
If You Do Decide To Pull A Trailer
If you do, here are some important points:

There are many different laws, including speed limit
restrictions, having to do with trailering. Make sure
your rig will be legal, not only where you live but
also where you’ll be driving. A good source for this
information can be state or provincial police.

Consider using a sway control. You can ask a hitch
dealer about sway controls.

Don’t tow a trailer at all during the first 1,000 miles
(1 600 km) your new vehicle is driven. Your engine,
axle or other parts could be damaged.

Then, during the first 500 miles (800 km) that you
tow a trailer, don’t drive over 50 mph (80 km/h) and
don’t make starts at full throttle. This helps your
engine and other parts of your vehicle wear in at the
heavier loads.

Obey speed limit restrictions when towing a trailer.
Don’t drive faster than the maximum posted speed
for trailers, or no more than 55 mph (90 km/h), to
save wear on your vehicle’s parts.
Three important considerations have to do with weight:

the weight of the trailer,

the weight of the trailer tongue

and the total weight on your vehicle’s tires.

Weight of the Trailer
How heavy can a trailer safely be?
It should never weigh more than 1000 lbs. (454 kg).
But even that can be too heavy.
It depends on how you plan to use your rig. For
example, speed, altitude, road grades, outside
temperature and how much your vehicle is used to pull a
trailer are all important. And, it can also depend on any
special equipment that you have on your vehicle.
You can ask your dealer for our trailering information or
advice, or you can write us at:
Pontiac–GMC Customer Assistance
P.O. Box 33172
Detroit, MI 48232–5172
In Canada, write to:
General Motors of Canada Limited
Customer Communication Centre, 163-005
1908 Colonel Sam Drive
Oshawa, Ontario L1H 8P7
Weight of the Trailer Tongue
The tongue load (A) of any trailer is an important
weight to measure because it affects the total or gross
weight of your vehicle. The Gross Vehicle Weight
(GVW) includes the curb weight of the vehicle, any
cargo you may carry in it, and the people who will be
riding in the vehicle. And if you tow a trailer, you must
add the tongue load to the GVW because your vehicle
will be carrying that weight, too. See “Loading Your
Vehicle” in the Index for more information about your
vehicle’s maximum load capacity.

Loading Your Vehicle
Two labels on your vehicle show how much weight it
may properly carry. The Tire-Loading Information label
is inside the trunk lid. The label tells you the proper size,
speed rating and recommended inflation pressures for
the tires on your vehicle. It also gives you important
information about the number of people that can be in
your vehicle and the total weight you can carry. This
includes the weight of all occupants, cargo and all
nonfactory-installed options.

The other label is the Certification label, found on the
rear edge of the driver’s door. It tells you the gross
weight capacity of your vehicle, called the Gross
Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). The GVWR includes
the weight of the vehicle, all occupants, fuel and cargo.
Never exceed the GVWR for your vehicle or the Gross
Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) for either the front or
rear axle.
If you do have a heavy load, spread it out. Don’t carry
more than 167 lbs. (75 kg) in your trunk.
CAUTION:
Do not load your vehicle any heavier than the
GVWR, or either the maximum front or rear
GAWR. If you do, parts on your vehicle can
break, and it can change the way your vehicle
handles. These could cause you to lose control
and crash. Also, overloading can shorten the life
of your vehicle.
NOTICE:
Your warranty does not cover parts or
components that fail because of overloading.
If you put things inside your vehicle -- like suitcases,
tools, packages or anything else -- they will go as fast as
the vehicle goes. If you have to stop or turn quickly, or
if there is a crash, they’ll keep going.

oh gm... you so funny

[addzradd]

Yeah I have the U-haul hide a hitch kit on my winter beater, I have towed shells of cars with a trailer that combined was about 2k lbs, from Nashville to Cleveland no problem, just keep an eye on trans temps and make sure to brake if you are even thinking about breaking, because if you do it when you HAVE to break it will be too late. Also some stiffer springs and better struts helped immensely.

[Capt Fiero]

Thank You guys.

To ease a few things, yes I know towing at those speeds is dangerous, reckless and leaves little room for correction. It was an experiment to see how the trailer and can handled lane changes and breaking from those speeds. The trailer is not a normal 45mph rated trailer it is rated for freeway use and I do maintain it. Check and repack bearings check and re-torque suspension parts as needed. I have towed thousands of miles with the Fiero as it was my only car from when I was 17 till about 32, and without much of a trunk a trailer was needed to haul spare engines and transmissions around.

Worst I ever had on the trailer was 1200lbs of tools towing with the Fiero from Oregon back to Canada down I-5 and trust me, I never went over 80mph the entire trip. Spent most of it at 70mph. When loaded right its not to bad. The Fiero's rear suspension is basically the front suspension of a GTP. Struts, vented disk brakes, lower A arms and a sway bar. My Fiero weighs in at around 2700lbs so well within the limit of a 1200lb load on the trailer.

The rear suspension on the GTP seems stable just not strong in the spring department. I have a pic around here someplace showing how loaded it was on the return trip vs how it sat after we unloaded it. Which explains why we only got 28mpg on the return trip. The nose was so high and the back so low that we were essentially driving a reverse wedge down the highway.

I have android Torque and OBDroid installed on my phone with a blue tooth transmitter so I can keep an eye on stats while we drive. I was really concerned with Intake Air Temp after the cone filter install, which didn't end up being much of a problem unless we were sitting in traffic. I'll try and post up the pics tonight. (am in the middle of another engine swap on a Fiero right now, just taking a quick dinner break)

One other question, just how good are the Trans Coolers in these cars, I hear everyone saying to keep an eye on trans temps, would a secondary external trans cooler be a worth while addition, I can get them fairly cheap through my old job.

[addzradd]

Yeah they would definitely be worth doing, as long as you can find a good spot for one. Mine is bolted up on the passenger side of the sub-frame tucked up by the power steering return line, and helps out my nicer GTP while doing auto-x or crazy roads like the Tail of the Dragon.

[bps02gtp]

im sorry but y test it when u really REALLY shouldnt be going that fast. hell no matter what ur towing u shouldnt be goin faster than 80. theres never any extremeties u need to test except for lane changes in a crazy rain storm and driving next to a semi. then you'll know what it can handle. going 120 just makes absolutely no sense.

a trailer hitch doesnt make much of a duty. yes heavy duty ones are better and nicer. but really when ur talking about towing with a car its all about how it runs, shifts and suspension being ok. ur almost better buying some beater SUV or something or renting one because if transmission goes thats an easy 1500 bucks for a new trans.

[Capt Fiero]

a trailer hitch doesnt make much of a duty. yes heavy duty ones are better and nicer. but really when ur talking about towing with a car its all about how it runs, shifts and suspension being ok. ur almost better buying some beater SUV or something or renting one because if transmission goes thats an easy 1500 bucks for a new trans.

We are trying to get rid of our beater SUV, we have a 96 Chevy Blazer 4.3 AWD that for family trips we use, but I hated driving an AWD vehicle on long road trips and wanted something a bit more fun, hence the GTP. I guess we could sell the Blazer and set aside 1500 for a rebuilt trans for the GTP if we blow it up. Honestly I did not know that trailering with a GTP would be this much of an issue. I figured it should at least be better than a Fiero for towing, yikes.

[bps02gtp]

if you take care of those blazers they'll last forever. i love those SUVs. those little things have balls. seriously just keep that and take care of it.

[Capt Fiero]

Normally I would agree, the 4.3 is almost indestructible, the suspension, transfer case and transmission are all perfect, even has leather interior and working A/C. However there is an issue with the fuel injection, it has some sort of spider fuel injection and the poppet's are bad. Dealer wants 1250 to replace the entire fuel injection and I really don't want to tear into the top end of this Vortec motor. Parts alone are about $600 bucks. It runs and drives but has a serious random miss. The reason we bought the Blazer was the 4.3 Vortec. When I was younger I worked as a delivery driver, and we had a fleet of Astro Vans. We beat the hell out of those things, red line, neutral drops, Smokey burnouts, you name it we did it. We never had an engine or transmission fail, no matter what we did. Long after I was gone, we did send this to the local store manager as a joke. http://captfiero.com/vids/smokeshow.AVI However where do you draw the line on a truck thats worth $2500-3500. We plan to sell it as is for about 1500. I suppose I could go to the local wrecking yard, find a blazer of the same vintage, pull the parts for about $200 hope they are in good shape and fix ours with a days labour and probably another $100 in gaskets and sell it for an extra $1000, but frankly I don't have the time or desire anymore to fix it. I have 2 engine swaps that I am working on today with 2 different V6 Fiero's then I need to pull the V8 from daily driver Fiero and figure out of the nitrous on it popped a head gasket. If you want to see a non W Body works, check here, West Coast Fieros Forum: Multi engine swaps and pulls. this is what I did today. (albeit I did use the Blazer to haul the trailer and Fiero motor / engine hoist / exhaust and various parts to fix the Fiero. ) Oh Damn now you got me thinking about fixing the freaking thing. Ugh, between my wife and I we have 6 cars now. 2 V8 Fiero, 2 V6 Fiero's the Blazer and the GTP.

Ok back to topic, I am going to check out the local U-Haul and see what they offer for Hitches. Is there any major site for GTP's or W Body that has other hitches. For the Fiero I get them www.fierostore.com

[codyAK]

There is no doubt the gtp has the power necessary to tow. It's the weak fourth, and lack of a frame that keep it from having a tow rating. I would say keep it out fourth, mainly because of the non hardened splines, and unless your on a long flat straight you'll have a hard time keeping it from jumping between 3rd and 4th(you can't hold it in 4th without modifying a different trans table or something, which is hard on the transmission.
Monitor your trans temp, and also your boost and try not to sustain boost for long.

There's a hitch available here:
Curt 12225 - Pontiac Grand Prix Trailer Hitch 1997-2008 - Receiver Tow Hitches

also google hidden hitch grand prix and you'll find another.

[bps02gtp]

Uhaul has good deals. Sh!t if u were around here id jump on that blazer like flies on sh!t

[solow172]

Pm'd

[Capt Fiero]

There is no doubt the gtp has the power necessary to tow. It's the weak fourth, and lack of a frame that keep it from having a tow rating. I would say keep it out fourth, mainly because of the non hardened splines, and unless your on a long flat straight you'll have a hard time keeping it from jumping between 3rd and 4th(you can't hold it in 4th without modifying a different trans table or something, which is hard on the transmission.
Monitor your trans temp, and also your boost and try not to sustain boost for long.

There's a hitch available here:
Curt 12225 - Pontiac Grand Prix Trailer Hitch 1997-2008 - Receiver Tow Hitches

also google hidden hitch grand prix and you'll find another.

Thank You for the link. That is what I am looking for. I'll also take a look at the U-Haul hitch.

Uhaul has good deals. Sh!t if u were around here id jump on that blazer like flies on sh!t

Here in BC where the gas prices are $6.50 a gallon, used SUV's especially ones that are full time Four Wheel Drive are a hard sell. Maybe I should try and sell the Blazer in Oregon, probably get considerably more money for it.

Pm'd

Replied

[bps02gtp]

as much as i love the blazers i never knew/realized they made one AWD.

[Capt Fiero]

as much as i love the blazers i never knew/realized they made one AWD.

Yep its a pretty rare option in the top of the line models, basically its an Oldsmobile Bravada drive train. Its kinda nice knowing that you always have traction and if you start to slide, you don't have to think twice, just ease the throttle to the floor and it will pull you back into line. The thing has leather, overhead temp monitoring, cruise, A/C, power seats, power windows, tilt, factory tinted rear and side glass. Almost makes me want to save it.

[bps02gtp]

ah ok. i knew the bravadas did but i thought u had an actual blazer.

well if you ever come to Illinois i'll take it off ur hands

id put a 3 inch lift kit on it with a plow and have some major fun with the winters around here.

[z3r0]

What trim level was the blazers cause my old 96 with the 4.3 did have 2wd just that the vaccine system kept engaging 4wd

[Capt Fiero]

It is a Blazer GM just put the Bravada style drivetrain in it.