Thread: Trying new plugs - Brisk

So here's the deal, I'm a plug fanatic. I've wanted to try the Brisk LGS plugs, but was afraid to run them with my mod level. Brisk didn't recommend running them with the list of mods and boost level. A well respected member here told me Brisk has come out with a new LGS plug that has a tighter gap designed for turbo applications. I have these plugs, and am planning on putting them in this weekend. Hopefully the well respected member will jump in this thread with his findings, once he gets his set installed.

Currently I'm running AL 104's @.050. Out of all of the plugs I've tried, my car idles, excellerates best with the NGK TR6IX plugs. Obviously SOTP differences are quite subjective and not completely helpful.

If I do any real testing, is there anything anyone wants to know about that I can somehow document?

One thing to note. Upon visual inspection there is inconsistancy in the silver center electrode. I would have thought a plug designed like it is would need tighter tolerances, but that is just speculation at this point.

You know I am near by to help ya Lee, just say the word and I will jet on over to help ya

Watch out for that power build up, its murder on transmissions

Originally Posted by GeddyLee

You know I am near by to help ya Lee, just say the word and I will jet on over to help ya

Same here, ya know I am down for anything.

Watching this thread for the same reason as Kent.

Originally Posted by SyntheticShield

Watch out for that power build up, its murder on transmissions

Crap, I forgot about your and Daves cars giving up the ghost right after the Brisk install. Well if bad stuff is going to happen it will happen to me.

TurboKent - I ran the AR 103's for about 10K miles right after my cam install. They started to give me idle issues right around 9K. 5-10k, but seems exceptable for plugs that don't cost an arm and a leg.

James and Steven. Hint hint for another STL mod day. I could use a co-pilot wathcing the HPTuners while doing some scanning. Not sure how to quantify results, like mpg and smoothness of idle, or general SOTP differences. When I went from the AR 103 that had expired to a new set anyone would have felt the difference. However, that was going from bad plugs to brand new. That type of comparison should be discounted imo.

I guess pictures would be helpful. Any local guys with a good camera capable of taking clear close-ups? I really would like to show the six plugs and their condition before starting this process.

I remember starting a thread a long time ago here trying to get some input on how to standardize and quantify plug effectiveness. Guess it might have been helpful if we had come up with something. But I recall the thread falling off because trying to decide how to deal with all the variables being too much.

That said, I am into plugs probably as much as you are and I would definitely be willing to collaborate with coming up with some sort of test methodology. As far as I know there is no ASTM or ISO standardized testing for plugs so we would be pioneering new ground in a way if we did. So if you want to work on it, I am more than willing. I personally think it would be a good collaboration actually.

With that a few things that come to mind:

1. Ease of spark - Does one spark plug fire easier, over come the gap better than another, minimum voltage needed to spark (not sure how to test for this)

2. What are the internal resistances of the plugs - Measure with a multi-meter
3. What kind of configuration is the plug - Surface gap, Sidegapped, Conventional, etc.
4. Idle improvements - Again, not sure how to measure this, I have some ideas though.
5. Fuel Economy - Easy enough to measure, just have to standardize the way the tank is filled up. I wrote an article on this once and the ways you can measure fuel economy, so I got that covered.
6. Acceleration - Several variables here, but if we could come up with a few testing standards, it would at least give a general overview.
7. Quality - How well is the plug made.
8. Materials - What is the plug made of


If you are serious and want to try it, I would be more than willing to work on it and see if we can come up with something. We could even try and build a test stand (basically a power source, coil and plug) and fire plugs that way. The fact is that there will always be unaccounted for variables no matter what we come up with. However, if we just take a stand and start somewhere, we can come up with something and then improve it as we collect data.

Originally Posted by SyntheticShield

I remember starting a thread a long time ago here trying to get some input on how to standardize and quantify plug effectiveness. Guess it might have been helpful if we had come up with something. But I recall the thread falling off because trying to decide how to deal with all the variables being too much.

That said, I am into plugs probably as much as you are and I would definitely be willing to collaborate with coming up with some sort of test methodology. As far as I know there is no ASTM or ISO standardized testing for plugs so we would be pioneering new ground in a way if we did. So if you want to work on it, I am more than willing. I personally think it would be a good collaboration actually.

With that a few things that come to mind:

1. Ease of spark - Does one spark plug fire easier, over come the gap better than another, minimum voltage needed to spark (not sure how to test for this)

2. What are the internal resistances of the plugs - Measure with a multi-meter
3. What kind of configuration is the plug - Surface gap, Sidegapped, Conventional, etc.
4. Idle improvements - Again, not sure how to measure this, I have some ideas though.
5. Fuel Economy - Easy enough to measure, just have to standardize the way the tank is filled up. I wrote an article on this once and the ways you can measure fuel economy, so I got that covered.
6. Acceleration - Several variables here, but if we could come up with a few testing standards, it would at least give a general overview.
7. Quality - How well is the plug made.
8. Materials - What is the plug made of


If you are serious and want to try it, I would be more than willing to work on it and see if we can come up with something. We could even try and build a test stand (basically a power source, coil and plug) and fire plugs that way. The fact is that there will always be unaccounted for variables no matter what we come up with. However, if we just take a stand and start somewhere, we can come up with something and then improve it as we collect data.

Definitely potential here.

1. Easy of spark - I'm with you here, not sure how to test this especially in a DD engine.

2. Resistance - I have a Fluke 77 and an oscilloscope.

3. configuration - easy enough, although I'm not sure how to classify the LGS configuration.

4. Idle - On a car with an XP cam, that would be tough, Although a before and after scan would be all that I could come up with.

5. Fuel Economy - I drive the same 60 miles everyday so no big deal. Although perhaps not accurate, wouldn't just going by the DIC at least be consistant? Mine seems to be as long as I intentenionally maintain a give MPH.

6. Accelleration - I'm not sure on this one. A dyno would be a good way, but not in my budget nor something I want to put my car through.

7. Quality - somewhat subjective, but none the less a needed item.

8. Materials. usually we only know information about the center electrode. In plugs like the Autolites, we know the "core" is copper, however we don't know what the coating exposed to the spark is made of. Brisk Silver racing plugs are solid silver...Trannyman, have any pictures handy? Some of this info will only be what is published by the maker. As this is the case we will have to be careful not to call things like copper core, copper...ect.

I can get some resistance reading, on AL 605, 104, NGK TR6IX, Nology Silver Racing, and Brisk LGS plugs pretty quick.

One thing to note is that since our ignition module has a current limiting circuit, resistance or lack of, may actually have little to no effect. Still know the resistance would be interesting, although impedance moreso.

If the LGS plugs you have are like the ones I bought from you, then it is a surface gap design. One of the advantages of that design is supposedly easier firing of the plug.

With regards to fuel economy, do you have any certified truck scales along your route? If so, that is going to be among the most accurate way to test fuel economy. In fact I believe there is an ASTM standardized test for measuring fuel economy that way. While the D.I.C is decently accurate if you drive all highway or all city but through any combination in there and it begins to show sizable errors. So if at all possible, using truck scales would be the most accurate way as that removes any inaccuracies in tank fill, temperature and so on.

Acceleration will be a tough one for sure and its sole purpose would be to serve as a cumulative representation of the plug. In other words it would be a big picture view of plug performance not measuring anything specific.

Materials would just be a general thing so that we can distinguish the construction of plugs of similar configuration.

Even with the current limiting factor of the ignition module, I do not think that it will be an issue. As voltage goes up, current comes down. So it is unlikely that will come into play, and if it does then we will have one heck of an ignition system on our hands. Though I would like to know what current level it is limited at. And I agree that impedance may be a better number to note since we have the coils in play, but to accurately calculate that, we will need to know the resistance of the plugs wires, etc.

Im wondering Lee, if to get this off the ground, if it would not be better to build a test stand? Sort of like a litmus test. If the plug shows favorable results with the test stand then install them and proceed with real world testing?

I wonder if we could power a ignition module and connect a coil pack up and a plug wire and plug and be good to go. All we would need to do then is just provide the interrupt that the vanes on the harmonic balancer does to the cps to fire the ignition.

If nothing else, we could develop our test procedures that way, no?

Originally Posted by SyntheticShield

If the LGS plugs you have are like the ones I bought from you, then it is a surface gap design. One of the advantages of that design is supposedly easier firing of the plug.

With regards to fuel economy, do you have any certified truck scales along your route? If so, that is going to be among the most accurate way to test fuel economy. In fact I believe there is an ASTM standardized test for measuring fuel economy that way. While the D.I.C is decently accurate if you drive all highway or all city but through any combination in there and it begins to show sizable errors. So if at all possible, using truck scales would be the most accurate way as that removes any inaccuracies in tank fill, temperature and so on.

Acceleration will be a tough one for sure and its sole purpose would be to serve as a cumulative representation of the plug. In other words it would be a big picture view of plug performance not measuring anything specific.

Materials would just be a general thing so that we can distinguish the construction of plugs of similar configuration.

Even with the current limiting factor of the ignition module, I do not think that it will be an issue. As voltage goes up, current comes down. So it is unlikely that will come into play, and if it does then we will have one heck of an ignition system on our hands. Though I would like to know what current level it is limited at. And I agree that impedance may be a better number to note since we have the coils in play, but to accurately calculate that, we will need to know the resistance of the plugs wires, etc.

Im wondering Lee, if to get this off the ground, if it would not be better to build a test stand? Sort of like a litmus test. If the plug shows favorable results with the test stand then install them and proceed with real world testing?

I wonder if we could power a ignition module and connect a coil pack up and a plug wire and plug and be good to go. All we would need to do then is just provide the interrupt that the vanes on the harmonic balancer does to the cps to fire the ignition.

If nothing else, we could develop our test procedures that way, no?

Zooomer was the one that mentioned the current limiting factor and how pointless it was to buy lowered resistance plug wires for performance benefits. So I can't really comment on that at all, I'm afraid.

I'm sorry, but I would have to go a long way to find truck scales.

I agree a test system would be ideal, however time consuming and potentially expensive for what it would be used for. Although very cool.

Yes the plugs are the same as yours only with a tighter gap for higher boost applications.

I seriously hope the person that told me about these will step in with some thoughts.

Cool, I will look into the test stand set up. It would certainly get lots of use from me, and I would probably make a run a drying up my mod money testing plugs, LOL.

Originally Posted by SyntheticShield

Cool, I will look into the test stand set up. It would certainly get lots of use from me, and I would probably make a run a drying up my mod money testing plugs, LOL.

sounds good

I'm interested to see how this all turns out, as well.

for the test stand, we had something at my school that simulated the coils firin to test plugs..... But I dont see why you would need the ICM, all you need is to apply 12V to the primary windings, and disconnect quickly, any time it is powered after saturation, it just makes heat, so you could almost just tap the power to the coil repeatedly and I would think that It would fire every time you tap it(well right after )

someone I know just ordered a set of these plugs as well. That's three to give our impressions.

Scotty are you LGS's out of the engine? If so, can you look and tell me if each of the center electrodes are perfectly shaped and smooth? IMO on this type of plug that would be very important.

Originally Posted by 02BlueGT

for the test stand, we had something at my school that simulated the coils firin to test plugs..... But I dont see why you would need the ICM, all you need is to apply 12V to the primary windings, and disconnect quickly, any time it is powered after saturation, it just makes heat, so you could almost just tap the power to the coil repeatedly and I would think that It would fire every time you tap it(well right after )

The only reason I thought about needing the ICM is that I was uncertain if the ICM did any amplification to the primary side. But a good square wave generator would make a good primary voltage source.

Or you could do as you said and just switch 12v on and off and that could be done with a square wave controlling a relay to switch the 12v source. So if I can get by without needing an ICM then that would drastically reduce the cost of the set up.

Originally Posted by IndeedSS

someone I know just ordered a set of these plugs as well. That's three to give our impressions.

Scotty are you LGS's out of the engine? If so, can you look and tell me if each of the center electrodes are perfectly shaped and smooth? IMO on this type of plug that would be very important.

Yep, they are out of the engine and ready to go to the cryo treater. I contacted them yesterday in fact.

Originally Posted by SyntheticShield

Yep, they are out of the engine and ready to go to the cryo treater. I contacted them yesterday in fact.

And the consistancy of the center electrodes?