found a car lot full of Gp's..

[Mikey Bonefas]

haha, yes i said that,
its got a couple of GTs GTPs and like one SE.
staying away from the SEs though, either wanna trade my current GT for a better year, or upgrade to supercharged.
not 100% sure yet. anybody got any ideas which year(97-03) GPs are the best?
i know the 97s have vacuum line trannys, just looking for a lil know-how when looking for another Gp.

any and all help is appreciated.

[Rico]

Prettey sure the 97 GTP's had the 4T65E-HD.
I would stay away from the 97 GT's/SE's - 4T60E vacuum modulated tranny.
It looks like you have a 97 GT. Top swap may be a bad idea.
98 to 03 GT's have the 4T65E-NON HD tranny. Top swap is OK.

Not much changed from 97 to 03 for the GTP's.

[BillBoost37]

There are always slight differences from year to year. What Rico said on the transmissions is on the money.

[addzradd]

Oh and one very nice thing 01+'s got deeper cupholders.

[JoRoW99]

IMO id pick a 2000 if you have the chance. Theres no gay vaccuum tree on the SC, no dumb coolant bottle, and no dumb cat diagnostic procedure in the PCM that messes up your car if you dont have a cat. might have Performance shift too? Not sure what year they were. And definitely get a GTP.

[MoarkatsINmuhtrailer]

99 started all that

[Matt Palm]

my 00 has performance shift

[JoRoW99]

99 started all that

2000 is newer

[blackflag]

IMO id pick a 2000 if you have the chance. Theres no gay vaccuum tree on the SC, no dumb coolant bottle, and no dumb cat diagnostic procedure in the PCM that messes up your car if you dont have a cat. might have Performance shift too? Not sure what year they were. And definitely get a GTP.

Slightly off topic. Will an o2 emulater handle this issue?
This is going to be the determining factor whether i go catless or not

[GTP in RTP]

my 00 has performance shift

My 97 has perf shift.

[TLSheff]

You want to get a 99-02 due to the option for readily available parts. The 03s have several parts specific to 03 only. and 97-98 are the redheaded stepchildren that weren't really wanted. I like my 99 mainly for the fact that it was the only good year with the cool options and didn't include the VATs PKE security system that would cause problems when it messed up. Its really up to you on what you get but I would stick with a 99-02 model GTP only.

If you want power and plan to mod I wouldn't bother with the GT unless you have plans to turbo the car. Just look for the normal problems GPs have, wheel bearing noise, funny shifting trannys, check for the metal gaskets, if its low miles and has black LIM gaskets you will want to change those at some point in the future, things like this before buying.

[Rico]

Slightly off topic. Will an o2 emulater handle this issue?
This is going to be the determining factor whether i go catless or not

Beginning in 99 or 00 they started doing a diagnostic test on the catalytic converter by over-fueling the system and watching the feed back from the rear O2 sensor. If you have an emulator it won't pass the test. Deleting the cat would require the emulator and a reflash of the PCM.

[TLSheff]

I was under the impression that was 01-03 that did this, that the 02 Emulators worked on 97-00 models... could be wrong. I don't have one and still have the stock cat so

[Rico]

Maybe I'm wrong about the year beginning?
Someone will chime in.

[TLSheff]

Maybe I just need to break down and get headers and remove the cat and get a 02 Emulator and see if it works haha

[Swiggles]

I also prefer 2000, no vac thingy, no weird throttle body like the 98s, no weird steering like 02, 03 only came in 4dr.

[blackflag]

Maybe I just need to break down and get headers and remove the cat and get a 02 Emulator and see if it works haha

I have an 01 and am installing headers w/no cat and an emulator within the next month. Ill let you know how it goes.

[txslow6]

From tech articles at ZZP:
97 vs 99 TB:


1997 marked a new beginning for the Pontiac Grand Prix. This model year marked a complete chassis, body, and drive train redesign. They picked a winning combination and have been using this setup for the last 5 years. This article is about the changes that have taken place in the current body style.
1997

• Master cylinder/fuild reservoir setup is different than on newer years
• Antenna on rear fender instead of in rear window on most 97’s
• Unique PCM for this year only, removable chip making case learn unneeded
• Large windshield washer fluid reservoir on top of battery
• Alternator and mount is different than the newer years
• Coolant temp display in the car starts at 100
• * The 97s DO NOT have tire pressure sensors. The 97s have the Delco Delphi ABS system, which could not handle the GTP power for TCS. So TCS was disabled on the 97 GTP, but works on the GT and SE. The “Tire Pressure” light was part of the Delphi ABS system; it did not sense pressure but noticed differences in tire rotation speed. When the Delphi was replace with Bosch, TCS was enabled but the “tire pressure” light was lost.
  
• * Some of the 97s had a prop rod instead of struts to hold up the hood. Some had under hood lights, too. The under hood lights were phased out after the prop rod, so some (few) have both struts and an under hood light.
  
  
• * Rear fender mast antennas were common for 97s because they ran out of rear window antennas at the factory. Those with mast antennas were credited $15 on the sticker.
  *Courtesy of Gene Orlanes
  
  
  
• Transmission input shaft is a little stronger from a better O-ring groove radius
  
  
  
  
• Complex EVAP system that uses an extra part not found on newer GPs
  
  
• M90 has an extra vacuum port
  

1998

• Fixed the problem with the fuel level sending unit
• Larger gas tank
• New PCM used through current models with some minor changes each year
• Coolant temp display in the car now starts at 160
• New shrouding and mounts on the fans to make them more efficient
• Moved the windshield washer reservoir into the passenger fender
• * Side mirrors on the 98+ and some retrofitted 97s have a little lip underneath to reduce wind noise
  * Courtesy of Gene Orlanes
  
• Performance shift indicator light added to gauge cluster
  
• Last year of GTP being an option for a GT, makes a difference with insurance I guess
  
• * Daytona Package available (Blue Pace Car Daytona Edition with torque star rims)
  * Courtesy of Charles Beyer
  
• Went to Dual digital climate control
  * Courtesy of Charles Beyer
  
• 98+ the gas cap is tethered to the fill tube
  * Courtesy of Gene

1999

• Fixed the headlight condensation problem
• Better air box (5hp) draws air from behind headlight and uses larger filter
• Moved coolant tank reservoir to side of strut tower
• Different Throttle body. Same electronics & mounting but the MAF sensor is setup different
• Torque star rims available that to date are the lightest offered on a GP
• Fixed the problem with the fuel pump resistor
• Fixed a problem with the wipers malfunctioning
• The light color went from green to red in 1999 on the digital climate control.
  * Courtesy of Trend1
• Bose sound system was added in 1999 as an option for the first time.
  * Courtesy of Trend1
• from 99 on, the Trans shifter cable is shorter and routed differently than the previous years (behind air box rather than around it) –Steve Widerski
• I thought I would add something to this subject. In 1999 the “Gold” package was introduced. The option code is Y11. It was available for only 2 years.1999 and 2000 and only on the GTs and GTPs. It included gold striping, black and gold badging, black and gold wheel centre caps, and gold wheels. In 1999 the wheels were painted and in 2000 there were anodized. As far as I know, this was a Canada option only. It is listed in the Canadian brochure but not the American brochure. I own a 2000 GTP Coupe with this option. I have all the GM Canada documentation for my car. Only 25 were produced.Roland Loewen, Canada

2000

• Added a small reservoir to the fuel line on top of the SC
• More plastic shrouding in front of the radiator
• * Added the child seat anchors on the package shelf
  *Courtesy of Shawn Leichliter
• * Went from Passkey 2 to Passkey 3
  *Courtesy of Richard Chu
• In 2000 the dual digital climate control’s previous “AC” button has been renamed “ECON” and the LED indicator works opposite, lighting up when the A/C is cancelled, rather than lighting up when it’s working, like in prior years.
  - Courtesy of Mike Watkins

2001

• The injectors and injector wire plugs were changed on the L36
• * Different sun roof cover. Doesn’t split in the middle making it look like two pieces. It looks like one solid piece. There are vents in the cover near the handle. These vents are nice since you can crack open the sunroof just so it lifts up in the back, and keep the cover closed. This helps in the summer when you can keep the cover closed so the sun don’t get in, but hot air can still rise up and out of the sunroof.
  * Courtesy of SnM
  
• On the 2001’s you have to disable each thing by removing the connector to the diode in the dash for the DRL’s, and you have to remove the light sensor in the middle of the dash for the auto headlights.
  * Courtesy of SnM
  
  
• On-Star cell phone antenna on rear window
  * Courtesy of SnM
  
  
• Removed performance shift
  
  
• Removed digital climate control
  
  
• Replaced the lights in the doors with reflectors
  
  
• On-Star now causing stereo installation problems
  
  
• Went with a new steering wheel with a smaller center
  
  
• * The 2001 cars have a deeper cup holder by an inch
  * Courtesy of Kelly Lischka
  
  
• * Special Edition available
  * Courtesy of Kelly Lischka
  
  
• New bracket on rear of coil pack mount
  
  
• Switched to a plastic gas tank
  
  
• The 1997 has 3 bolts that hold the hinge to the body of the car where as the 2001 only has 2. On the 1997 one of those bolt holes in the hinge itself are slotted so to remove the hinge from the car you don’t have to fully remove that bolt. The other two you do. The 1997 hinge has rubber bumper stops in its down resting position and in its open raised position. On the 2001 it doesn’t have ANY rubber bumper stops what so ever. It does have a bolt adjusting screw for the “down position” so the hinge doesn’t go too far down and do damage to the body of the car.
  - Courtesy of Jason Farnsworth
  
  

2002

• * 40th Anniversary Edition available
  * Courtesy of Kelly Lischka

2003

• A pillar is changed so gauge pods will not fit
  
• Transmission now has internal neutral safety switch
  
• Outside temp sensor removed

Just did an analysis of the various PCM’s that the 3800SC engines
used and came away with the following:. My conclusion seems to agree
with the information that you passed on.
The 4T65eHD’s up until 2002 all used transmission fluid pressure
switches that were used to set the line pressure. In 2003 it appears
that the transmission design was changed to incorporate a PC solenoid to
accomplish this task.
A comparison of the PCM output diagram from 2003 to the 2004-2006
units appear to show almost identical outputs to the tranny with a
couple of exceptions.
The 2004-2006 PCMs have a Remote Shift Selector signal that I believe
is for the paddle shift option that the series III uses.
The 2003 PCM.s have a TCC Brake Switch Signal output which I don’t see
on the 2004 -
The 2003 PCM doesn’t output a Remote Shift Selector signal. The
2004-2006 units do.

Therefore a couple of assumptions can be made about using a 2003 PCM
series II to manage the later 4T65e HD transmissions used on the series
III.
1. It appears that the change in controlling the transmission fluid
pressure was done in 2003 while the series II engine was still being
used.
2. The 2003 PCM can probably shift this transmission provided that the
PW modulation or control parameter input to the PC solenoid valve HI/LO
in/outs is the same as on the 2004-2006 transmissions. WE guess that it
probably is unlikely that GM would make the change for one year only.
3. The Remote Shift Selector signal output is missing on the 2003 PCM
( we assume paddle shift) so will need to determine if the trans
shifting defaults to automatic shifting without seeing it.
4. No surprise but the pre 2003 PCMs WILL NOT SHIFT the later
4T65EHD’s and it is very questionable even if internal mods can make
the trans
compatible with the earlier PCM.s

Ideally the next step would be to locate someone who has tried swapping
the 3800SC series III /4T65eHD powertrain and running it with the 2003
GTP PCM w cable style TB and sensors. . If it can be done this would
get us away from trying to install with ETC ( which is something that we
want to avoid). The swap would probably be successful using this
powertrain with the 2003 PCM, Northstar TB, series II O2 sensors and the
LS6 MAF but a couple of questions remain before we attempt it. Seems
like we may be the first folks to try it.
If you have any more definitive information to share, please pass it along.

Regards,
Dennis
3800SC series III /4T65eHD swap in progress

[Mikey Bonefas]

well i have been thinking about it it and i mean mine isnt so bad for having the vacuum line trans.
granted it wont be good to mod, but hey it runs and drives alright. i might jus stick ith it for awhile.

i appreciate all the info yu guys have givin me. my plan now is to jus start saving money so i can just buy another one,
might try and go with a 2000, everyone had mentioned them so why not.

side question, anyone know anything about a gp without and antenna? mine is the 97 gt and there isnt one on the window and there isnt one coming out of any fender, its just not there. and just curious if my driver wheel hub could be the cause of my trec control not working?

[MoarkatsINmuhtrailer]

01 started the cat diagnostics