Thread: KYB Excel-G vs GR-2 - interesting discussion with KYB tech.

You realize AGX' aren't meant for lowered cars either, don't you? They just take slightly more abuse than the GR-2s, thus why they last a bit longer. But in reality, to properly lower a car, the struts must be designed to accommodate the drop in ride height by accounting for it in the height/travel of the shaft. So IF the FE4 suspension DOES really offer a 10mm (~.4") drop in ride height, not only would that make it better than its GR-2 counterpart, but the AGX as well since, in essence, the .4" drop in ride height takes the impact of the .9" drop of the Vogtlands springs down to around .5". The only questions that remain are does the FE4 indeed offer a 10mm drop in ride height (can't seem to find confirmation on this), and will the slightly different perch mount height cause any fitment issues on non-FE4 equipped cars.

Originally Posted by RareGMFan

You realize AGX' aren't meant for lowered cars either, don't you? They just take slightly more abuse than the GR-2s, thus why they last a bit longer. But in reality, to properly lower a car, the struts must be designed to accommodate the drop in ride height by accounting for it in the height/travel of the shaft. So IF the FE4 suspension DOES really offer a 10mm (~.4") drop in ride height, not only would that make it better than its GR-2 counterpart, but the AGX as well since, in essence, the .4" drop in ride height takes the impact of the .9" drop of the Vogtlands springs down to around .5". The only questions that remain are does the FE4 indeed offer a 10mm drop in ride height (can't seem to find confirmation on this), and will the slightly different perch mount height cause any fitment issues on non-FE4 equipped cars.

Do you know who the fuk your talking too?

I know there now designed for them either, but there a lot better suited then anything else. There's nothing else we can use. I sure as hell aint going to use stock struts again or GR2s. Which I've had both on my GTP.


and im pretty sure all FE4 cars arent not lowerd, just use different sturts and sway bars and some came with a front STBs

Damn, did someones ego get hurt a lil bit? You talk like you're Vin diesel or something. This is a debate man, so why do you talk like "believe what I say or else", and I've noticed it for a long time now. There's no reason to get your undies all bunched up.

Originally Posted by taman86

Damn, did someones ego get hurt a lil bit? You talk like you're Vin diesel or something. This is a debate man, so why do you talk like "believe what I say or else", and I've noticed it for a long time now. There's no reason to get your undies all bunched up.

Yeah, im Vin diesel. haha. That was funny.

dude. I aint mad. Really?? You would know if I was mad, just check out my threads on ClubGP..haha

It at nothing to do with believe what I say. Its the facts. I aint some newb. I've had a my GTP for over 12 years now. I know what im talking about.

I understand what RareGMFan is talking about but the fact of the matter is no one makes the correct struts for lowering springs. We are a dying market and its not going to get any better..

Originally Posted by 92bird

I was just sharing some info I had received.

I would think there would be a difference over the GR2 grand prix specific replacements.. Why would KYB go through the hassle of R&D and making a seperate part? Monroe, Gabriel, etc do not make any differentiation.


Jeramie

No harm done man. Not everyone has to agree

I still think the reason they have different parts besides them looking different is there phasing out the GR2s for the Excel Gs

it even says on kyb's site that the gr-2s and the excel g's are the same strut they are just different colors to make them look more like stock struts. hardware and assembly are the same.. big disappointment for those on a budget

Originally Posted by Ridin ON Chrome

It at nothing to do with believe what I say. Its the facts. I aint some newb. I've had a my GTP for over 12 years now. I know what im talking about.

I understand what RareGMFan is talking about but the fact of the matter is no one makes the correct struts for lowering springs.

How long you've had your car, and how much you know about it up to this point is irrelevant to this discussion. This is newer information coming in that, *IF true*, changes things as far as strut options. The problem is you stated "even if the Excel's are made for the FE4 suspension. They still arent going to be any better with lowering springs..." as if it's fact when we don't KNOW this for a fact yet. IF they really do offer a .4" drop in ride height, coupled with the stiffer tuning, they would actually be a better choice than even the AGX'. If this ends up not to be true, then yes, we're right back to square one. You claim to deal only in facts, but we're still WAITING on the facts.


92bird - You didn't really start a debate (though I think of this as more of a fact finding discussion). In fact, it's great that you got and posted this info, because this could potentially help a lot of people out if it pans out. Too bad the damn Vogtlands are on back order again.

Originally Posted by RareGMFan

How long you've had your car, and how much you know about it up to this point is irrelevant to this discussion. This is newer information coming in that, *IF true*, changes things as far as strut options. The problem is you stated "even if the Excel's are made for the FE4 suspension. They still arent going to be any better with lowering springs..." as if it's fact when we don't KNOW this for a fact yet. IF they really do offer a .4" drop in ride height, coupled with the stiffer tuning, they would actually be a better choice than even the AGX'. If this ends up not to be true, then yes, we're right back to square one. You claim to deal only in facts, but we're still WAITING on the facts.

Weather the FE4 cars have springs with a .4" drop anwsers your question but doesnt relate to the Gs being better then AGXs. Since most springs including my B+G drop the car significantly more then .4"

Its great if they do work well with FE4, still doesnt help the people riding on B+Gs, Eibachs, Vogtland etc.....

Here is another question for the op. I know he recommened the rear bumpstop part number SB128. But what about the front bumpstop part number SB127? They are stated on rock auto as w/ 17" or 18" Wheels; Front Right, Front Left.

Taken From the KYB Outlet Store FAQ:

What is the difference between the GR-2 and the Excel-G products?

We apologize that this is a bit confusing. Both products are identical except for the product name and paint color. KYB sells products throughout the world. Some part numbers fit vehicles from various countries that share the same chassis platform but have different nameplates. At one time there were several KYB brand names, but we are now moving toward one name and color. So in the future all new part numbers will be called Excel-G and have black paint.

I just installed 4 on my car a couple of weeks ago,

What a difference in the ride and handling of the car,

GR2 kit for 2006 Pontiac Grand Prix : KYB Outlet : 2 pcs : 339089, 2pcs : 334228 : $256.15 - Delivered

boooooooooooooooooooo yaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How long you've had your car, and how much you know about it up to this point is irrelevant to this discussion.

Was was that again RareGMFan?

I knew they were the same..
sorry, just had to rub it in. Since im Vin diesel and all.lol

Lol that was pretty funny. I think the only way this will be settled is if a person does a back to back test with gr-2s and excel-g's, with both a seat of the pants feel and lateral g test to get some hard numbers.

I'm sure they are valved similar to the stock delco struts, in order to comply with the the FE4 suspension offerred on the 06+ monte carlo ss.

My brother ordered the excel g's for those part numbers posted and the front and rear bumpstops as well for an 06 monte SS. He is not planning on lowering at the moment. I will post back feedback when we swap everything out.

Originally Posted by Ridin ON Chrome

No harm done man. Not everyone has to agree

I still think the reason they have different parts besides them looking different is there phasing out the GR2s for the Excel Gs

I called them up and referenced the part numbers in this thread. They told me that the part numbers I gave them were only for a specific 06 monte carlo or something rather. Otherwise, the part numbers for my vehicle also matched other monte carlos from other years. Here's where it became frustrating. They kept telling me the monte carlo part numbers I gave them would not work on my GTP. However, I asked them to verify the strut mounts and they were the same for the Garnd Prix, and both style monte carlo struts they had on hand.

So if 3 different setups use the same strut mount but potentially use different struts...perhaps one of them was designed as the FE4 replacement strut? The light bulb lit up off for the technician after realizing the strut mounts were all the same then conceded that since it was not a bilstein replacement then it is probably the KYB designed replacement strut for the FE4 suspension.

Rockauto list the same front part number for the 99-03's and the 06+ impala/monte ss.

Originally Posted by Ridin ON Chrome

boooooooooooooooooooo yaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Was was that again RareGMFan?

I knew they were the same..
sorry, just had to rub it in. Since im Vin diesel and all.lol

Rub what in? Your inability to understand or address what I've been saying a million times between the 2 threads about this topic? It has already been substantiated that there is no difference between GR-2 and Excel-G. Christ, I'm the one who even quoted where it clearly stated this off KYB's own website on this very thread, even bolding the specific text where it states this.

http://www.grandprixforums.net/kyb-e...tml#post564900

NO one has argued that the lines themselves are different at this point. What we're trying to figure out now, as matt5112 stated, is how much of a difference is there between the regular GR-2/Excel-G replacements for the w-bodies, and the ones specifically for MC/Impalas with the FE4 suspension (which is a completely separate part #).

Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT

I called them up and referenced the part numbers in this thread. They told me that the part numbers I gave them were only for a specific 06 monte carlo or something rather.....So if 3 different setups use the same strut mount but potentially use different struts...perhaps one of them was designed as the FE4 replacement strut? The light bulb lit up off for the technician after realizing the strut mounts were all the same then conceded that since it was not a bilstein replacement then it is probably the KYB designed replacement strut for the FE4 suspension.

"boooooooooooooooooooo yaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

What was that again Ridin ON Chrome?

Sorry, just had to rub it in since you didn't seem to be understanding what the discussion is about at this point.

THREE part #s for KYB w-body replacements. One most likely being the original GR-2 # we've been using all these years, then the Excel-G # that will be an identical replacement for the GR-2 # we've been using all these years (eventually rendering the original GR-2 # obsolete), and then a (2nd) Excel-G # specific ONLY to FE4 suspension equipped w-bodies. Once again, the real question now is what all is different on the FE4 specific struts. It may not be much, but I'd be curious to know exactly what it is, especially since the OP said the tech that started this whole discussion said it has a .4" lowered ride height.

If you'd still take the AGX' over the lowered ride height, that's your business. I'd rather have the stress of the Vogtland's .9" lowered height on our struts chopped almost in half with a .4" lowered ride height strut to minimize the wear as much as possible.

Originally Posted by I800C0LLECT

Here's where it became frustrating. They kept telling me the monte carlo part numbers I gave them would not work on my GTP.

That is most likely for liability purposes. Since your car didn't come with FE4 suspension from the factory, they are not going to list a part specifically designed for that suspension as a suitable replacement for your application. This happens all the time for parts that people know are interchangeable, but are not listed that way. For example, we know the variable rate springs on the other w-bodies will fit on our GPs, but they're not listed as options for our cars when you look up springs on most sites. But since we know they fit, we can just look them up as Regal springs and purchase them that way. Only thing with these struts are we don't know yet 100% if there will be any fitment issues or not. I doubt it, but until someone tries it, we can't say for sure.

Well put gmfan