Lol.. how about you run 2600 rms on your stock electrical, pounding day to day at high volumes, and tell me how long your equipment lasts? Our stock electrical system, let alone our 120 amp alternator, CAN NOT support 2600rms daily.
|
|
10-11-2011
Lol.. how about you run 2600 rms on your stock electrical, pounding day to day at high volumes, and tell me how long your equipment lasts? Our stock electrical system, let alone our 120 amp alternator, CAN NOT support 2600rms daily.
10-11-2011
Real professionals? Sooooo.... only the largest classes, the "real professionals" use batteries and multiple alternators, correct? If batteries have no effect on the system, why are batteries limited depending on class? Too many batteries can bump you up in classes.... but, that makes no sense, seeing as how they have no effect whatsoever on the system. Lol... I really hope nobody ruins equipment that they spent their hard-earned money on.
10-11-2011
Nevermind, I understand after looking at your build logs... you are speaking from the standpoint of not having run a system with this much power. I see why you fall back on the logic that you do. Try it one day... and I hope you have money to replace your equipment when you fry it due to the "battery not being important, and the 120 amp alternator being enough to support 2600rms." Good luck lmao.
10-11-2011
Car Audio Myths
TeamSwift • View topic - Myths Dispelled: Why Capacitors Don't Work
Capacitors, batteries, alternators, and myths
Really Funny car audio myths - diyAudio
Car Audio Electrical System and why you're sort of wrong about capacitors. - YouTube
Capacitor or extra battery? - DIYMA.com - Scientific Car Audio - Truth in Sound Quality
Anyways...every professional I've come across will tell you straight up. Batteries are for playing audio when the engine is off. Alternator = playing audio when engine is on.
10-11-2011
Originally Posted by Fatboy501
Attempting to dismiss information simply because I may or may not know your neighborhood and friends?
Ignorance like yours is the reason car audio has fallen apart. Please go read a book about electricity before putting down others.
Application of knowledge is a bit more than just turning the volume up. When you take the science out of car audio, there's nothing left but smoke and mirrors...err I mean competitions. Thanks for trying to contribute.
10-11-2011
Fatboy came to a car audio forum full of the worlds top competitors. I would like to post my real world application between numerous batteries and alternator.
I compete for DbDrag and due to my 3 batteries, I have the option to jump between 3 classes. Keep in mind, every tenth of a voltage counts when doing my runs. Street runs are car off, and Super Street runs are car on.
Street B- 1 battery, drop to 12.4V, ~142.7db
Street C- 2 batteries, drop to 12.6V ~143.3db
SuperStreet NW- 3 batteries, 220A alt since car is on now, drop to 13.0V ~144.0db.
So there you have it, with the car being on, my 220A alt didn't make that much of a difference, you need a battery bank to back up the voltage.
10-11-2011
So were we talking about DbDrags, competition setups, or a daily driver on the Grand Prix Forums?
Funny how things become skewed to support an argument.
10-11-2011
Also, to be on topic with the original post...
People have swapped out batteries in there systems and monitored the voltage. Currently, XS Power makes the best car audio battery out to date. People have done direct swaps of the same size batteries, most commonly Group 31 batters, and have saw less voltage drop when using an XS Power. Voltage is everything when it comes to car audio. When you clamp your amplifiers output, you have to factor in your voltage drop. The reason being is because amps will put out more power if the input voltage is higher.
Higher voltage also leads to a cleaner signal. My next real world use with a clipping indicator on my mono amp; With my stock alt, my voltage would drop to 12.0V and on would clip say volume 25 on a certain song. Now, I can hold 14.0V with my new HO alt on the exact same song and receive no clipping. Now if I disconnect one or two of my batteries in the rear, my voltage start to sink severely and once again I'll receive the clipped signal.
For those of you who don't know what a clipped signal is... Picture this, a sine wave is the wave a speaker produces assuming the signal is clean. The coil inside moves in the shape of the sine wave. The crest and the trough is when the coil builds up the most heat. A clipped signal produces a square wave. Look at the difference between the peaks and troughs of the square wave to the sine wave; The square wave (clipped signal) produces WAY more heat due to the coil stay at the crest and trough much longer. Coils over-heating is the electrical limit of subwoofers which will cause them to blow.
In summary, from my experience, along with EVERY other competitor I have competed with, including at the DBDrag World Finals, the more battery, the higher the voltage, the less clipped signal, the safer your system is. Also, on the meter, most people lose tenths of decibels burping a clipped signal rather than a nice clean signal.
Edit* I'm talking about daily. Most of us run daily cars but compete with them too. The difference between a burp vehicle (what you consider a competition car) and a daily car is all in the tuning of the box. Most cars running a burp setup tunes there boxes around 50-80hz and can't play music. Daily, we can play music and put up some loud numbers.
Edit 2* Also, a lot of leagues compete car on. The most prestigious classes in DBDrag, such as the SuperStreet classes run car on.
10-11-2011
Is a daily driver playing games on the very edge of acceptable amplitude? What does he do when he changes CD's and the recording level is different?
10-11-2011
OP, to answer your question, take this from a competitor who uses a daily driver, along with EVERYONE else who competes, even in daily driving cars.. for a true 2600w RMS system, you'll want a HO alt, around 200A, check Mechman for phenomenal alts.. And as far as batteries, I highly recommend XS Power for the absolute best car audio batteries- the biggest you can fit under the hood then a single D3100 in the rear.
10-11-2011
Yes it is, because I drive daily with my setup and push it to the edge non stop. I'll end it right here since it appears I have more experience than you. If I didn't have 3 batteries and my HO alt, getting the potential out of my system would not be possible. When you don't have the extra battery power to back up the voltage and amperage your HO alt is putting out, you WILL burn up your amp, you WILL blow your subs due to a clipped signal.Is a daily driver playing games on the very edge of acceptable amplitude? What does he do when he changes CD's and the recording level is different?
10-11-2011
Correct. How many people drive down the road with a DMM on their equipment?
The real issue here is that the Op isn't into competitions. He isn't into anything else that you and others might be referring to.
Experience vs. academics? Was the 86 grand national wrong then? he had 140 decibels in his mid-bass alone. He didn't need a plethora of batteries. He just turned over his engine.
That's a direct function of your gain. Just because you're retuning every song to get the "most" out of it doesn't mean the electrical system is the blame., you WILL burn up your amp, you WILL blow your subs due to a clipped signal.
10-11-2011
For those wondering...in SPL they're attempting to extract EVERY BIT of volume from their system. It can become very involved. At the heart of all this is your gain. The goal is to maximize the playback potential from start to finish. The gain bridges the source to the amplifiers. Everything else is a domino effect. What Fatboy and the other are saying, nm...it just begs the question of whether or not it's applicable to the op's application and needs.
Majority of daily drivers set the gain and leave it. Apparently these two guys take everything a step farther. You're playing with fire when you do that; as they've previously stated.
Anyways...here's a quick fyi on gain and how it applies to the system. Unregulated power supplies certainly make it a circus act when attempting to balance everything and maintain harmony.
Amplifier Gain Controls
Last edited by I800C0LLECT; 10-11-2011 at 05:39 PM.
10-11-2011
You're more likely to deal with a fire when you don't have enough battery/alternator power. Once an amp starts getting into the 10V range, if it doesn't go into protect, it's going to start smoking. 2600 RMS on a 130A and most likely a group 24/37 battery of any kind is going to drop into the 10V range easy. OP, you can listen to the guy I'm quoting, who doesn't have testing/real world experience, or you can trust me and Fatboy on this, who deal with this stuff every single day.
10-11-2011
140db means nothing to me unless I see what frequency was picked up at that. 150db with horn tweeters isn't hard at all, of course you're measuring it at a wicked high frequency.
XST2.mp4 video by MetalHead42792 - Photobucket
I'll bet money that's well over 140db at less than 6ft.
Direct function of my gain? Did you read what I said? It's PROVEN from me and every amplifier manufacturer out there, the lower the voltage, the quicker the amplifier is going to reach it's clipping limit. I swapped my alternator, and didn't touch the gain. My voltage on a song would clip heavily at 12.0V, then new alt and it would be a clean signal at 14.0V, how are you going to tell me I touched the gain?
Last edited by AllenH427; 10-11-2011 at 06:47 PM.
10-11-2011
As Allen Hall already stated, I posted this exact issue to people with much more experience than myself. 1800, I truly do not appreciate you stating that people like me are the reason why car audio is falling apart,when you have not built a system running this sort of power. People like YOU are the reason big car audio companies prevail... of course, buy the Sony "2400w" amp instead of the Sundown, AQ, Stetsom, Soundigital, Digital Designs, etc. that require electrical upgrades to use. that You had references, I did not... I linked this convo to people with knowledge FAR beyond either yours, or mine. You can try to convince the OP as much as you want... perhaps you will prevail. In any case, you can attempt to down me all you want to... YOU HAVE NOT RUN THIS MUCH POWER. I, as well as Allen, have REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE as opposed to reading and relating. I respected you, and your opinion, up to that one statement from you. Honestly, to tell me I'm the reason car audio is dying, when I apply this knowledge day to day... man you can kiss my ass. End of story... don't believe me, don't believe the competitors... the choice is yours.
10-11-2011
Guys come on don't argue about this... everyone has their own opinions... for god's sake it audio!
I800COLLECT is the Mod that knows a sh*t ton about car audio. This argument should never even have started! The OP got his info in the first few posts! Come on guys
10-11-2011
Not an argument man... no offense was taken until my real-world EXPERIENCE was belittled. I realize that 1800 is much more knowledgeable than me on this subject... which is why I linked this convo to people who have much more experience than me or him with this subject.
10-11-2011
Ik , but the OP asked about batteries two pages ago and hasn't come back.
Make a new thread for audio debate, to help ppl learn more about it
10-11-2011
You're right, and I will comply. If any further debate is to be undertaken on this matter, I, for one, am all for taking it to a new thread. My threshold of knowledge has been succeeded, as 1800 apparently knows far more than I do... however, as has been demonstrated, I have access to people with more knowledge than both of us put together. In any case, I apologize if anything I said has been offensive to anyone other than who I directed it towards.
| « Previous Thread | Next Thread » |
| Tags for this Thread |
| Bookmarks |
Bookmarks |
