It turns over but will not fire

**egavas** · 01-15-2013

Ok, this may have been posted but after 3 hours of searching I can't seem to find what I am looking for.

I have a 2002 GTP (40th ANV.)

Story:
On Saterday morning around 8am I went to start it with zero luck, I ended up killing the battery so now it has a new battery. With the new battery it started around 1pm. I also went and added some HEET to the fuel tank just to help with water freezing. (it has been consistantly below 15 degrees and getting down to -10 at night) On Sunday morning it again would not start again so I put a heater on the motor and pointed it towards the fuel rails and after about 3hrs it started, I figured the HEET just had not gotten in the fuel well enough so I took it for a drive and filled the tank then drove it around for another 20 miles. Came home put the heater back on all night and Monday morning it started up just fine. I drove it to work and home 100 miles round trip and had no problems (although I did start lossing fuel milage but I was just chaulking that up to the HEET working and getting water out of the fuel tank and lines.) I did not put the heater on it and went to start it will not luck on Tuesday morning, put the heater back on it and 3hrs later the wife started it up just fine. I am going to stop and get a new fuel filter on the way home but I just changed it not even 2000 miles ago (just to be sure.) I can hear the fuel pump everytime I turn the key. This is going to drive me insane. Anyone have any other ideas as to what my problem could be?

Thanks in advance for any help.

**BillBoost37** · 01-15-2013

1. Why are you assuming you have a lot of water in the tank?
2. What does the engine do, you say "wouldn't start".. We need information along the lines of "cranks like mofo, but never quite catches" or "fires and dies after a few seconds, won't stay running" or "I hear the fuel pump when I turn the key, then I only get a click when I turn it to start".
3. See 1 and 2, that should keep you busy.

**dsmuts** · 01-15-2013

Try starting fluid next time it won't start

**BillBoost37** · 01-15-2013

Remove the black cap off the fuel rail on the front leg right about where the #3 injector is. Turn key to on then off and press down on the valve. Expect that it should shoot gas up at you. If it's weak or non-existent, then you are having a fueling issue. check the pressure once you get the car running. Pressure should be ~45-55psi.

**egavas** · 01-15-2013

Ok, not to be a "jerk" but did you read the title. It turns over but will not fire - answer to number 2.

Why water? Well, let's see. If I have the heater on the fuel rails then it starts, if there is not heater on the fuel rails it will not start. That tells me something is freezing. Well water freezes and gasoline does not. I have been working with a mechanic for the last 30 years, I am not new to this. I was just trying to widen my knowledge base and see if someone else had this problem and what they did to fix it.

**egavas** · 01-15-2013

Originally Posted by dsmuts

Try starting fluid next time it won't start

Where would I put starting fluid. It is fuel injected and not carberated.

**01gpgt01** · 01-15-2013

in the intake, just a small spritz or two in the IAT sensor hole will do

**egavas** · 01-15-2013

Originally Posted by BillBoost37

Remove the black cap off the fuel rail on the front leg right about where the #3 injector is. Turn key to on then off and press down on the valve. Expect that it should shoot gas up at you. If it's weak or non-existent, then you are having a fueling issue. check the pressure once you get the car running. Pressure should be ~45-55psi.

I have done this. When it will not start it does not squirt out but does not trickle out either. When it does start I have good pressure.

**egavas** · 01-15-2013

Thanks 01gpgt01

**dsmuts** · 01-16-2013

You shouldn't have any water in the gas unless you are getting gas at a questionable place.

**Toms04compg** · 01-17-2013

Did you accidentally pump 87? Even when you get it started does it run good or kind of crappy?

**BillBoost37** · 01-17-2013

Yeah, I did read the title, maybe I missed something. I hit a lot of posts..sorry.

You are heating the fuel rail, not the fuel lines all the way back to the tank. Think of a garden hose that freezes, most of the fluid can't get past the blockage to begin with, but you may have a trickle. Seems that you'd need to heat the line the whole way back. The lines from your rail to the edge of the body...are plastic and wouldn't conduct the heat very well, which seems odd for helping to thaw the lines.

Secondly if you had water in the tank/lines, the engine would run poorly.

Have you tested the pump for pressure at the fuel filter? That can help diagnose the lack of any pressure at the rail. Maybe you have a blockage in the filter or the pump isn't kicking on. I've only been working on cars for about 10 years, I've made a few tools and adapters to test these types of things. A piece of an old fuel rail (supply side) clamped into a tube and attached to the pressure gauge can be a great diagnostic tool.

There isn't any wiring on the engine that should be able to be heated and get the fuel pump to run or not run. That would be in the relay center on the right side strut tower.

**egavas** · 01-19-2013

No, I did not put 87 fuel in. We are careful of that.

I have run an additive to rid the tank of water and it is not running bad but I have lost fuel milage. So I think there is water in there.

I am changing out the fuel filter on Sunday or Monday which even one I have time in.

BillBoost37, how would it be the fuel pump? If it is warm out or the engine bay is warm it starts and once it is running it runs fine. Just a question as your statement has me thinking.

**94grandprix** · 01-21-2013

What exactly will it do if you put number 87 gas in it,I know many people that do in the 3.8s

**Scottydoggs** · 01-21-2013

Originally Posted by 94grandprix

What exactly will it do if you put number 87 gas in it,I know many people that do in the 3.8s

running 87 octane in a supercharged 3800 will make it go boom if its driven hard over time. you can literally feel a power difference from 87 to 93. like night and day how the engine runs/responds.