Thread: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics

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  1. #1 Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member GTP89's Avatar
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    So i am finally putting back the engine together to stock form all i wanted to do was replace the gaskets from the heads up and took it apart from till there, i will be doing oil pan as well but for now i want to put it back together up top.
    This is my first time putting heads back on usually i never take em off since i dont know how complicated it is. I already have the head gaskets and everything else needed, i am putting back together a stock L67 on a gtp to sell soon and keep my other two 40th's. I can put the rest without a problem i have done so already its just the heads i worry about. since i've heard a lot of stories of leaking coolant, or didnt seal right.

    1. Do i put copper spray on the head gasket? i have the felpro gaskets.

    2. How do i know which push rods go were i took them out to clean them and idk were to put each of them or if there even different in size?

    3. What do i use to clean the surface of the heads and block? degreaser?

    4. One of the heads has a small chip by the valves should i worry its a junk yard pulled motor from a 97 gtp.

    5. I have the torque to yield bolts for it with a paste on them idk if those are ok for the heads, since i've heard debates about paste and teflon tape and i dont want my heads leaking coolant or anything at all.

    6. Any other info is appreciated and thanks in advance.

    The car i pulled it out of









    The small chip



    cleaned the pistons up the best i could.
    Last edited by GTP89; 08-01-2012 at 12:17 AM.
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  2. #2 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member Rico's Avatar
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    1. Do i put copper spray on the head gasket? i have the felpro gaskets.
    Go for it. Some people swear by it. I always use it on a rebuild. Don't spray the deck or the heads, just both sids of the gasket then install.

    2. How do i know which push rods go were i took them out to clean them and idk were to put each of them or if there even different in size?
    Always put them back in the same holes they came out of. The wear pattern on the tips are particular to each rocker and lifter.
    There is no way of telling what hole they came out of it you mixed them up.

    3. What do i use to clean the surface of the heads and block? degreaser?
    Razor blade and some MEK or acetone.

    4. One of the heads has a small chip by the valves should i worry its a junk yard pulled motor from a 97 gtp.
    Take a Dremel tool with a barrel sander and knock the edges down. If you don't do this it will create detonation in that cylinder.

    5. I have the torque to yield bolts for it with a paste on them idk if those are ok for the heads, since i've heard debates about paste and teflon tape and i dont want my heads leaking coolant or anything at all.
    Put the bolts in and TTY them. They already have a sealer on them. Make sure they are brand new OEM fasteners.

    6. Any other info is appreciated and thanks in advance.
    If the motor was running well when you disassembled then there should be no problem but to be safe take the block and rods to a machine shop and have them checked for OOR and mains alignment. If the block is out of spec it may run for about 5 minutes and FAIL.

    It's a CUMMINS Dodge not a Dodge Cummins
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  3. #3 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member GTP89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico View Post
    1. Do i put copper spray on the head gasket? i have the felpro gaskets.
    Go for it. Some people swear by it. I always use it on a rebuild. Don't spray the deck or the heads, just both sids of the gasket then install.

    2. How do i know which push rods go were i took them out to clean them and idk were to put each of them or if there even different in size?
    Always put them back in the same holes they came out of. The wear pattern on the tips are particular to each rocker and lifter.
    There is no way of telling what hole they came out of it you mixed them up.

    3. What do i use to clean the surface of the heads and block? degreaser?
    Razor blade and some MEK or acetone.

    4. One of the heads has a small chip by the valves should i worry its a junk yard pulled motor from a 97 gtp.
    Take a Dremel tool with a barrel sander and knock the edges down. If you don't do this it will create detonation in that cylinder.

    5. I have the torque to yield bolts for it with a paste on them idk if those are ok for the heads, since i've heard debates about paste and teflon tape and i dont want my heads leaking coolant or anything at all.
    Put the bolts in and TTY them. They already have a sealer on them. Make sure they are brand new OEM fasteners.

    6. Any other info is appreciated and thanks in advance.
    If the motor was running well when you disassembled then there should be no problem but to be safe take the block and rods to a machine shop and have them checked for OOR and mains alignment. If the block is out of spec it may run for about 5 minutes and FAIL.

    1. will do i have some already

    2. Thats the problem i did mix them up when i cleaned them so how can i solve this?

    3. What about gas?

    4. just slightly? never done work on heads to scared of disrupting any air flow or causing problems with the heads since ive heard its a delicate process

    5. Got them from O'reilly also isnt there a torquing procedure at 90 Degrees?

    6. Trying not to put much money into i will be taking the oil pan off to see if there is any material in there but so far it seems good. Also according to a friend i have at the junk he said it was running before they pulled it in.
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  4. #4 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member Rico's Avatar
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    1. will do i have some already
    Good choice.

    2. Thats the problem i did mix them up when i cleaned them so how can i solve this?
    I can't help you here.

    3. What about gas?
    Don't use gasoline...Benzene is a carcinogen.

    4. just slightly? never done work on heads to scared of disrupting any air flow or causing problems with the heads since ive heard its a delicate process
    Just knock the sharp edges down without disrupting the valve seat. Smooth is good.

    5. Got them from O'reilly also isnt there a torquing procedure at 90 Degrees?

    Reference: 3800 Torque specs
    Cylinder head bolts: 37 ft/lbs + 130 degrees + 30 degrees up to 10/98
    37 ft/lbs + 120 degrees


    6. Trying not to put much money into i will be taking the oil pan off to see if there is any material in there but so far it seems good. Also according to a friend i have at the junk he said it was running before they pulled it in.

    If the engine was running good before disassembly then it should be good to go but there is a risk involved. Do yourself a favor and go buy a small bore gauge and make sure the rods and mains are less then 0.0005" OOR. This is one the most overlooked aspects of rebuilding the 3800 SII and usually results in immediate failure of the engine. When installing the crank shaft make sure it spins freely. Check the clearances on all mains at the same time and make sure they are all equal. If they are not equal then this means one of three things of which all/any one needs to be addressed:

    1) The block is twisted
    2) The crank shaft is bent
    3) The mains are OOR and block needs to be align honed

    Trust me; not making sure that the bottom end is in spec will likely result in immediate engine failure!
    It's a CUMMINS Dodge not a Dodge Cummins
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  5. #5 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    $1. I do this as well, use 4-5 decent coats per side. Only spray one gasket at a time. The torquing process will slow you down.

    #2, Just put them in. I often have people hand me used parts and ask for the engine to be assembled. Haven't had an issue yet, ideally you'd put them right where they came from for the exact wear. They are all the same length and spec, so just toss them each into a hole and you should be fine.


    #3. I use a quality brake cleaner for all gasket surfaces. Accept no substitutes if you don't have the Rico cleaners...but a couple cans of brake cleaner.


    #4 Agreed..you need to smooth the sharp edges or it'll cause KR. Just hit it like Rico said and don't hit the valve.

    #5 I never put anthing on new OEM TTY bolts either. They have red stuff on them.

    #6 You are this far...may as well do as Rico says.
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  6. #6 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member Rico's Avatar
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    I'm sorry I forgot to mention this VERY IMPORTANT note about reusing the pistons.

    Whatever you do with the pistons, if you're installing new rings, make absolutely sure there is no carbon in the ring lands. New rings and carbon do not get along. The carbon will decrease the amount of compression distance for the ring when they get up to temperature. If the ring has nowhere to go when it expands it'll wreak havoc on the cylinder walls and possibly break the rings or snap the lands. Just another common mistake of the novice.

    An easy way to clean the lands (chemicals won't help here):
    Take an old ring and snap it in half
    Use the broken ring to scrape the carbon from the lands
    Make sure you can see nice clean aluminum at the bottom of each land
    Try not to remove any aluminum from the land surfaces that are perpendicular to piston travel
    If the ring has to much play in the land it will twist back and forth on every cycle and eventually snap

    Let me know if you're installing new rings and I'll explain how to check another very important thing: ring gap

    Hope this helps
    It's a CUMMINS Dodge not a Dodge Cummins
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  7. #7 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member GTP89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillBoost37 View Post
    $1. I do this as well, use 4-5 decent coats per side. Only spray one gasket at a time. The torquing process will slow you down.

    #2, Just put them in. I often have people hand me used parts and ask for the engine to be assembled. Haven't had an issue yet, ideally you'd put them right where they came from for the exact wear. They are all the same length and spec, so just toss them each into a hole and you should be fine.


    #3. I use a quality brake cleaner for all gasket surfaces. Accept no substitutes if you don't have the Rico cleaners...but a couple cans of brake cleaner.


    #4 Agreed..you need to smooth the sharp edges or it'll cause KR. Just hit it like Rico said and don't hit the valve.

    #5 I never put anthing on new OEM TTY bolts either. They have red stuff on them.

    #6 You are this far...may as well do as Rico says.

    1. so dont do he torque process?

    2. Really? all the same lenght? so i can just toss them in anywhere correct?

    3. so acetone would be best?

    4. will do can i hit it with those stones for the dremel then smooth it out with a sander?

    5.mine have blue paste.

    6. i dont plan on doing a complete dissasembly just the heads up an oil pan. water pump. i dont want to mess with the crank. piston,piston rings or rods i want to leave as is.

    7. is it normal for the piston to have some movement side to side or no?
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  8. #8 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member GTP89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico View Post
    I'm sorry I forgot to mention this VERY IMPORTANT note about reusing the pistons.

    Whatever you do with the pistons, if you're installing new rings, make absolutely sure there is no carbon in the ring lands. New rings and carbon do not get along. The carbon will decrease the amount of compression distance for the ring when they get up to temperature. If the ring has nowhere to go when it expands it'll wreak havoc on the cylinder walls and possibly break the rings or snap the lands. Just another common mistake of the novice.

    An easy way to clean the lands (chemicals won't help here):
    Take an old ring and snap it in half
    Use the broken ring to scrape the carbon from the lands
    Make sure you can see nice clean aluminum at the bottom of each land
    Try not to remove any aluminum from the land surfaces that are perpendicular to piston travel
    If the ring has to much play in the land it will twist back and forth on every cycle and eventually snap

    Let me know if you're installing new rings and I'll explain how to check another very important thing: ring gap

    Hope this helps
    Thanks for the advice but i wont be completely dissasembling the engine anything thats the psitons, piston rings, crank and rods and such will stay were they are at. i just mainly took it apart to change all gasket since the guy told me it was running before i pulled it out. and wan no leaks make it look nice and run good before i sell it.
    there is some movement on the piston idk if this is normal though i can move it very little side to side it doesnt hit the wall of the block just idk if its normal since i think they all move.
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  9. #9 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    1. I didn't suggest not torquing, I only addressed the copper because it wasn't said how thick or thin to apply. Add what I said to what Rico said.

    2. Really.. we have super simple engines. I'd think if you had run into different lengths in the past, you'd have paid attention to it on disassembly.

    3. I only use brake cleaner. Wearever in the black and gold can is my favorite. Doesn't mean it's the best or not the best. Merely adding another suggestion so you dind't have to search for it.

    4. Whatever you got..smooth it out.

    5. Cool.. it's all the same .. there's something on them, done.

    6. Then why would you take off the heads? I wouldn't have.

    7. That's a good question for Chuck.
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  10. #10 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member GTP89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillBoost37 View Post
    1. I didn't suggest not torquing, I only addressed the copper because it wasn't said how thick or thin to apply. Add what I said to what Rico said.

    2. Really.. we have super simple engines. I'd think if you had run into different lengths in the past, you'd have paid attention to it on disassembly.

    3. I only use brake cleaner. Wearever in the black and gold can is my favorite. Doesn't mean it's the best or not the best. Merely adding another suggestion so you dind't have to search for it.

    4. Whatever you got..smooth it out.

    5. Cool.. it's all the same .. there's something on them, done.

    6. Then why would you take off the heads? I wouldn't have.

    7. That's a good question for Chuck.
    Just didnt want to do all the work and install it and have leaking head gasket or ovr all a problem i mean while its out why not? 25 bucks on gaskets some work and info and call it good. it was leaking alot of oil and has about 147k on it out of evey gasket which is why i decided to replace them.
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  11. #11 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    I understand.. but with some searching you probably wouldn't have spent the extra $70 on HG's.

    Since you had the oil leak, you are changing the rear engine cover gasket...right?
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

    2010 Audi A6 Dual IC's
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  12. #12 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member GTP89's Avatar
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    I'm guessing that means I should lol
    never done the rear easy to do?
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  13. #13 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member Rico's Avatar
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    #7
    Piston clearance should be 0.005" + 0.002" or - 0.001".
    In my opinion you'll never see a 3800 at -0.001" unless you're spec'ing an engine that has just been bored.

    Easy way to tell if there's a problem:
    Turn crank to move piston to bottom
    See if you can catch a fingernail in the ridge that is just below the deck, concentric to the cylinder
    If theres a lot of slop in the piston more than likely there will be a ridge
    If the ridge grabs your fingernail and holds on then the cylinder is most like OOR and out of spec
    To get an accurate measurement go get a set of feeler gauges and slide them between the piston and wall

    If one or two of the cylinders are slightly OOR you should be OK if not changing the rings. The engine may run quite a long time like this. Especially the 3800 SII.

    For a racing engine this would most definitely need to be addressed. I use a hand honer (220 grit) and a bore gauge. If the hand honer puts the piston clearance out of spec then a trip to the machine shop ensues. Over sized pistons are expensive.

    If I'm doing a 3800 block that needs rod resizing, align hone and the cylinders bored I put the block in the back of my truck and align the nose of my truck with the nearest scrap yard. The expense of all this work is just not worth it. There are a ton of these engines out there that do not require all of this machine shop work.
    It's a CUMMINS Dodge not a Dodge Cummins
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  14. #14 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    Turbo is the way to go. BillBoost37's Avatar
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    Well..if you took the heads off to replace gaskets, they you should consider doing the nearly always leaks gasket at the same time. Just tossing that out there, because not doing that gasket would be like reusing your leaking valve cover gaskets.
    I drink..so consider that when reading my posts.

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  15. #15 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    SE Level Member 2000gtpbt's Avatar
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    Great info guys Ive been wanting to rebuild my engine for a while now I have a good idea of where to start and what I should look for. Let us know how you engine turns out gtp89.
    Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.
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  16. #16 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member GTP89's Avatar
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    ^^^Will do but had another question to whoever can help since I left the block sitting for a month there is surface rust on the cylinder walls very little how do I take that off?
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  17. #17 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rico View Post
    #7
    Piston clearance should be 0.005" + 0.002" or - 0.001".
    In my opinion you'll never see a 3800 at -0.001" unless you're spec'ing an engine that has just been bored.

    Easy way to tell if there's a problem:
    Turn crank to move piston to bottom
    See if you can catch a fingernail in the ridge that is just below the deck, concentric to the cylinder
    If theres a lot of slop in the piston more than likely there will be a ridge
    If the ridge grabs your fingernail and holds on then the cylinder is most like OOR and out of spec
    To get an accurate measurement go get a set of feeler gauges and slide them between the piston and wall

    If one or two of the cylinders are slightly OOR you should be OK if not changing the rings. The engine may run quite a long time like this. Especially the 3800 SII.

    For a racing engine this would most definitely need to be addressed. I use a hand honer (220 grit) and a bore gauge. If the hand honer puts the piston clearance out of spec then a trip to the machine shop ensues. Over sized pistons are expensive.

    If I'm doing a 3800 block that needs rod resizing, align hone and the cylinders bored I put the block in the back of my truck and align the nose of my truck with the nearest scrap yard. The expense of all this work is just not worth it. There are a ton of these engines out there that do not require all of this machine shop work.
    This by far won't be a race engine lol just a stock one to function good put on my gtp and sell. To fund me for a tranny on my next buil wich will have a xpz and stage 4 heads and a lot more.

    I checked all the pistons and they all seems to move the same amount like I said it isn't a lot very little but i just want sure if a piston is suppost to move at all.
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  18. #18 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
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    break it in hard as well.
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  19. #19 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
    GTP Level Member GTP89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt5112 View Post
    break it in hard as well.
    Break what in? And with what?
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  20. #20 Re: Engine Reassembly Help.. L67 lots of pics 
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    If you do ever intend to put new rings on, break it in hard once warmed up. Break in being driving the car hard.

    Then change the oil after a few miles, and again after a couple hundred.

    Even if you don't, the oil change should still apply. Use conventional as its nice and cheap.
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