Someone tell me how to remove that frickin' thing. I cant find a write up anywhere. I see some retainer rings on the gear side, but I have not been able to work them free yet.
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09-11-2008
Someone tell me how to remove that frickin' thing. I cant find a write up anywhere. I see some retainer rings on the gear side, but I have not been able to work them free yet.
09-11-2008
If I get on my laptop tonight I'll get instructions from my GM SI manual for you and you'll get an e-mail.
09-11-2008
BFH
09-11-2008
The thought had already crossed my mind.Originally Posted by Abrasive
Thank you Sabrewings
09-11-2008
You've got mail.
09-11-2008
eegads. I guess Jay was right after all, I just need a BFH. Thanks for that info Sabrewings. Though, are they using the slide hammer on the front cover side or on the rear cover side? My assumption is on the front cover side since it would probably screw into the gear bolt hole.
09-11-2008
Brian first told me what this was and why it was put on our motors some time back. Now just quickly tell me your opinion on this. I trust you so if all you have time to say is yes or no then thats fine.
Is this ok to remove and are you planning on doing so?
What ever your answer may be ill be doing it in the future if my motor build ever takes place.
09-11-2008
Personally, Im torn between whether or not to pull it out permanently. To take it out, you need to have the crank balanced and then you have to plug the oil holes for the balance shaft.
I had not really planned on pulling it permanently and I guess I need some more understanding and insight as to what the true advantages are and whether or not they are worth the effort.
I know thats not a lot of help, but Im still kind of on the fence about this myself. I really dont want to even pull it out of the block I have but I have to in order to get the block checked cleaned and treated, otherwise I would not even touch it.
09-11-2008
This is from zzp. Scotty im not sure how much this means to you or anyone else being that it is from zzp. But I thought I would share LOL
*The counterbalance shaft has nothing to do with the balance of the engine. It is not figured into the balance of the rotating/reciprocating parts of the engine. It is used to remove vibration at lower engine speeds which are inherent to the 90 deg V6 design. Once an aftermarket cam has been installed, the balance shaft is actually counter productive. It doesn’t help with idle vibration and it can cause vibration issues at higher RPM reducing engine life and HP.
09-11-2008
Really? Why then do they call it a 'balance' shaft if it does not figure into the balance of things. I would be curious also to their explanation of why when you have the crank 50% balanced it is recommended you remove the balance shaft.
I dunno, maybe my understanding is way off but Im not sure about that statement from them, but Im open to the idea that I havent a clue what Im talking about either and am way off base.
But, the inherent design of a V configuration motor is that you need something to counter the forces of the up and down motion of the pistons. Engines like the boxer and rotary wouldnt need any balancing because they are naturally balanced by their configuration. Unless there is some other counter balance in the engine Im really baffled by the zzp statement.
Hopefully someone will come in and clarify everything.
09-12-2008
You don't need t pull it and I wouldn't recommend pulling it unless the engine is out of the car. You can easily remove all the gears and leave it in there and it won't hurt a thing.
My was removed with a BFH as well and only the rear hole gets plugged IIRC with a 1/8"NPT allen head set screw.
09-12-2008
Thanks Vinnie. The engine is out of the car. Its a spare block I bought along with a crank and set of heads to build up.
When you say rear hole, you mean the one opposite of where the timing chain is?
09-12-2008
When I had the double roller in, the balance shaft gear was removed obviously. At Idle, the engine did vibrate noticeably. Then when I put the stock timing chain back in, I put the balance shaft gear back on as well. Now the engine doesn't shake as much at idle. I haven't noticed any difference at high RPM. Don't know if I would or not anyway. who knows.
09-12-2008
The hole we plugged was the one in the rear cover, yes oposite the timing chain.
09-12-2008
Guess I'll be pounding that sucker out this evening.
09-12-2008
It can be called a counter balance if anything.
Two bolts remove the front retainer next to the gear. Then a love tap with a hammer pops it out of the block.
The hole you need to tap, and plug is BEHIND the rear engine cover. Once thats removed, you will see a small hole just under the rear bearing/bore the balancer rode on, its about in the 4:00 position, only one like it near that hole. Tap, plug, done.
I'm making something to aid in this, where you don't have to pull the motor to plug that hole off if you remove the balance shaft.
~F~
09-12-2008
why even take it out? weight savings?
i just left mine in. its still there just chillin. it doesnt hurt anything being there.
09-12-2008
It's not part of the balancing of the crank and pistons, but the 90* V design leaves some inherent vibrations at low speeds that can't be accounted for. You add the balance shaft as a counter balance to smooth out the engine as a whole at those speeds. With or without it your bottom end parts are balanced. It's just that the pattern of forces with a 90* V will cause a few shakes at low speed.
It's my personal belief that the balance shaft isn't perfect at it's job and some of these excess vibrations build to the "shake" the 3800 makes at idle. That's what causes people to believe the engine is missing for some reason when it's purring along none the wiser.
09-12-2008
Thank you Farns for that info. And yes Sabre, counter balance is probably a better word for what that shaft does. I should have thought of that myself.
I did find a shop in Tulsa that has done work on 3800's. How much I dont know as I have not went there personally yet. So if all checks out I'll probably take everything there and just have the whole thing balanced and be done with it. We'll see how that goes though.
Im half tempted to have everything blueprinted and balanced. If I knew for a fact I could afford to do so I would but Im sure that is going to involve some work. I really need to sit down and just lay everything out on paper that I want to do and start pricing stuff out that way I know what Im in for and what can be sacrificed and what cant.
09-12-2008
The way I look at it, and maybe it's not the right way, but it's a lot cheaper to replace shortbolcks then to put money into them, but I'm also only 3 hours from Ed so my views may be unique
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