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The blower they sent back to me, was different then that. That may have been an earlier one, perhaps for intercooler use? I'll agree with you that there needs to be material there and there has to be a definative shape, but a little cant hurt. i was looking to dyno before port and after but my blower ate the piston.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bio248
Ok i have finished looking thru a bunch of m90 pictures and port designs. I know some say that opening the outlet too much will decrease efficiency. IE the Lightning style outlet. if you look at the picture i attached, i think the design of the elongated outlet would actually be good and here is why. on both the stock and ported blowers on the right of the pic, you can see the raw casting where the rotors never touch the case. when air is pushed in this area, it has to find its way forward toward the main outlet. in the lightning outlet, this air can escape much easier. Another design idea for the outlet is to extend the outlet triangle to just before the point where the rotors are at their lowest. the idea behind this is that once the rotors begin turning upward instead of downwards or inwards, they are fighting against their own rotation. i feel this is the reason for the "silencer ports" as the rotors approach almost their lowest position in this area. the main outlet is where the rest of the rotor reaches its lowest point... well short of it...
I have a spare M90 from a 97 car i will practice on. but i feel my reasoning is sound. OK so thoughts and input please......
Attachment 8510
lawl, can I come check out the carnage or what Dino?Quote:
Originally Posted by deangtp
Ok so this is a stock outlet for a mp62/mp90
http://img.tapatalk.com/4cb47955-8d55-16ea.jpg
I was curious if the outlet design was responsible for makin the blower sound ridiculous at idle and under boost (YouTube 03blackgsx-mp62 tiburon)
And why it cant work the same way for the gen5 (notice zzp parts at stiegemier)
http://www.stiegemeier.com/coppermin...15_-08_050.JPG
Is it because the rotor packs are designed differently between the 2?
the only reason im considering a port design like this is that from the inside of our gen 3 case you can see where the rotors do not make contact. if we allow this to vent it will reduce restriction and decrease heat in the process.
And possibly lower boost numbers as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by Z34Phoenix
lbs/min flow rates would be helpful
Would this be a good result if it was also reducing heat output?Quote:
Originally Posted by bluegtp91
Sure, but then to make up the power loss from boost you'd have to pulley down again, correct? Which would heat everything back up again and totally defeat your original purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by DanGTP
But... but... you will have a really cool looking outlet design that nobody will be able to see... so its worth it... right?
ROFLMAO After ... 15 years... you would think if this was a good idea, and most beneficial, it would have been done and that would be the recommended porting procedure for these superchargers... Granted it may not have been tried, but since ZZP has the money to test these blowers and that is the base design for the M112, I would guess they tried it and realized it didn't work.
the only way to be sure is a side by side comparison. on a dyno, with boost pressure and inlet outlet temps recorded. i dont have the time or money to do this. so even before i begin, i guess we will never know.
To those who say that since the vendors dont do it.... it wont work! im sorry but that is the mind set that will kill innovation and creativity that could lead to more innovation. i have gotten some very good info out of this and similar threads i have on other boards. i was not aware that the area in question made contact on the gen V. this is good info. lets keep the facts rolling and thinking caps on please.
It is very possible that opening up this area up had no effect... from looking at it the cavity just will vent to the main outlet. it is very unlikely that any changes in this area will increase or decrease boost pressure. by this point of the rotors rotation, air has had its chance to escape via the silencer ports and being pushed toward the main outlet. and like said the rotors will push the air back toward the outlet and not allow it to reenter the inlet side.
what could help is some thermal pictures of a M90 running. this can help us identify hot spots and where temperatures are climbing. since the blower does not compress air inside the blower the heat is less likely from the compressed air but more from friction. smoothing castings to reduce air friction doesn't sound like it will do much for heat because any air being pushed thru the blower is coming from the TB. our TB's don't get that ungodly hot from the air rushing thru them. so that leads me to think the heat is mainly from friction of the: snout, rotor to case, and rotor to rotor contact.
Now what can we change on the blower case to change boost... if we were to change the clearance of the rotors to the case or rotor to rotor this will reduce heat but also reduce the seal allowing air to escape. what might be possible is to use a fine metal polish on the walls on the side of the rotors where the bearings are and the snout case. we wouldn't want to remove any material but just clean and polish. i remember recently someone who polished the interior of their SC case. i am not recommending this as again it would reduce the seal of the rotors.
ok everyone elses turn....
Use a scanner, record your current boost PSI (and if possible, dyno the car) then port either your supercharger or another and put it on, re-record boost PSI, and redyno. This will tell if there is a PSI &/or dyno difference. Then test for temp changes because if it yields negative results in PSI &/or HP/Tq nobody will want to bother with it.
Wasn't meaning to be negative on the vendor thing, just sayin... on 90% of all things over more than a decade, what is suggested is the best route. Please be open minded, creative and prove me wrong. I would love to port my M90 and get the most out of it when I do it. If this works, I'll be right behind you. :)
I had a M90 ported like that once. No real gains and the thing sounded like a vacuum cleaner.
I can't see that being a good idea.
blower blows into lim.
compression happens there.
As for efficiency: the problem is with how the air is drawn.
See the following:
http://www.smokinvette.com/corvette/...tion_img_5.jpg
http://www.smokinvette.com/corvette/...tion_img_6.jpg
Would suggest more gains to be made on the inlet considering our blowers need quite a bit more inlet relative to their output.
Probably where most of the gains from a Gen V and the larger TB come from.
Has anyone listened to that video of my mp blower ?(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qdpc...e_gdata_player)
If that's what u mean by sounding like a vacuum , I'm half sold.
I'm willing to try this and record scans. I just can't get a cheap gen5 case.
Again
Why would that mp outlet be acceptable but not on a m90?
And I thought that steigmier vendor was like the holy grail of mustangs
So wouldn't they be making products that have been tested and proved?
That's another thing I'm waiting for. An email back from them with results
i want to see pictures of an actual gen3 m90 port by them.
zzp built a SC dyno and blew through about 10 different M90 cases doing testing on outlet porting....
The port job they currently sell is the "best" result they got.
Yeah, like back in what...'04 or '05 when they started porting stuff?Quote:
Originally Posted by darkhorizon
still no response back from that company seems odd....
Well either I mistakenly contacted zzp support or steigmier company has a generic auto-response team as well
"We offer stage 6 porting smaller pulley upgradea
A Snake Bite option that is 17#s boost with stock pulleys we have a cooling option also that reduces blower temps by 50%
Thank you and if you have any other questions or concerns let us know or feel free to call
Steigemeier"