Thread: What ratio rocker arms can i run with stock springs?

I was looking to pick up some rocker arms maybe soon and was wondering if i could pull off 1.8's with stock springs? I was thinking about camming it but i'm not sure i want to spend that much.

Cam doesn't cost that much more, just do it.

i was thinking maybe i could have prj do it around tax time but i'll need a trans (tep?) by that time so i'm not sure how much i'd have wrapped up in it all.

roller rockers arent worth the gain.

i ran modded 1.9s on stock springs forever and would recommend that if youre going the rocker route.

i thought about modded 1.9's but i thought you had to run stronger springs with them.

Originally Posted by dsmuts

i thought about modded 1.9's but i thought you had to run stronger springs with them.

Um no. However, some people will tell you that all day on this forum. I ran them in my previous GTP with stock springs for 35K miles before I sold it. Never had an issue. I'm about to install a set on my current GTP and I'm not planning on upgrading the springs.

You can run them but mathematically it shows you will have valve float. People do run them on stock springs but you are on the very edge of making it work that way. So basically I wouldn't. I have modified 1.9s and put new springs and retainers in because I don't want to run into an issue.

Just because a few people have done something and it works, do you want to be the one who it doesn't work for? lol

I suggest L92 springs. That is what was suggested to me and what I am running.

Originally Posted by txslow6

Um no. However, some people will tell you that all day on this forum.

While the ZZP PCM issue I stand by, this is horsesh1t to the max.

Stock springs, especially cars that are getting 10+ years old and well over 100K+ miles...are getting tired out...and aren't at the same spring rate when they left the factory...and running higher ratio rockers your going to WANT stronger valve springs...why? Because in order to take full advantage of the pitiful HP per $ you gain from a rocker upgrade...your going to need to rev the motor to 6000-6200....whatever you prefer, but stock shift points would be cutting your nose to spite your face. NOT upgrading springs and running a rocker ratio higher than 1.84's...or even modded 1.9's...I'd recommend running LS6 springs, L76 G8 Springs, or Crow 105's...that way you have the peace of mind knowing your not on borrowed time on the worn and tired out factory valve springs that might be sitting around 60-70 lbs...and for the cost of springs...it's kinda one of those...why didn't you do that...like changing the oil and just cleaning the filter and tossing it back on...another one of those...can you run 'em? Sure. Is it the best idea in the long run? IMO, not quite.

Food for thought pulled from ZZP's website:

1.6 is the stock ratio.
1.7 will add some lift to whatever cam you are running. (people will run these with the smaller cams if they add ported heads)
1.8 ratio is intended for stock cams with higher mileage valve springs(or low lift aftermarket cam with ported heads).
1.84 ratio is the highest ratio that you can run on the stock valve springs.
1.9 ratio is for stock cams with aftermarket valve springs & retainers.
1.95 is the most aggressive ratio for a stock cam and obviously requires aftermarket valve springs & retainers.

Originally Posted by txslow6

Um no. However, some people will tell you that all day on this forum.

Quoted for the truth. Guess I'm pig piling Nick's message. These cars haven't been produced in a while and springs are fatiguing. Change how far and how much something moves now that it has 100k+ miles on it.

If you choose to put higher ratio rockers on older springs, do so knowing that you stand a much better chance of breaking a spring or getting valve float than a fresh engine from the factory.

The points I always tell customers are:
1. Change in amount of movement from the norm.
2. Older fatiguing parts tend to give easier in a #1 situation
3. Liability of the motor is your choice.
4. There's more power in a cylinder with closed valves.

what ratio are er rockers?

They are 1.8 and 1.9 if I recall. They are a split ratio.

Nah Bill its 1.8 and 1.85. I think with those you can run stock springs and be fine.

do I need new springs?

As far as what ive read everywhere 90% of people use stock springs for ER rockers if your shifts are 6000rpm or less.Anything over that i would get springs.

Your need for springs is up to you.

Many guys have no issues, maybe a little valve float. Being on the forums as much as I am, I see all the float, breakage and problem threads. Which is why I always suggest swapping.

And since they really aren't that expensive...why not is what I'd ask you.

You prob won't notice valve float until u get on a dyno and see it.

The ER rockers were intended to be used on N/A motors, there is a bit of difference for spring requiremnets.

So say I buy 1.8's I would be fine on 200k mile springs until I can upgrade?

Sure, but the money you spend on 1.8's really would be a waste...unless you went ballz out and left those 1.8's with a cam.