Kinda Long..But I need help

**TJs97** · 02-25-2008

I am having an issue w/my 97 GTP. I have brought it to 3 different mechanics and each one has different ideas..BUT since the car decides to act fine once its there..no one can actually pin point it.
Here's the symptoms..

Saturday...
Start it up first thing in the AM..runs fine. Drive 30 miles to work no issues.

3 or 4 hrs later..Turn Key- tries to turn over but won't. It doesn't make a clicking noise..its cranking..just won't start. SES light is on. I Call my friends shop..he sends down a battery pack. it starts.(theres a very obvious smell of gas outside the car after it does). But it runs fine . Did a battery test..it failed replaced battery, Scanned the car and got a lean bank 1 code.. fixed a vaccum leak. SES light is off and it runs REALLY good. I am happy again.

Sunday.. No SES light starts right up and its running great.

Monday..same story as Saturday except its slightly different. Drive to work..its fine. Still no SES light etc.. 3 hours after arriving at work I go to leave. The car starts and I realize I forgot my wallet inside. Get back in the car and realize the idle is REALLY low..all of a sudden it jumps to about 3k RPMs and stalls. Try to start it again and the same thing happens again..won't crank over. Call my friends shop again..he says try giving it a little gas as you try to start it ( i gave it ONE pump as it tried to turn over)..it starts..he tells me to hold it at 1500 RPMs and see what happens. Well the SES light came on (blinking this time) and the car reeked of gas and was shuttering. Let go of the gas..it dies again. He says wait awhile and try to start it again. It starts an hour later..but the idle is terrible and the SES light is solid. I decide to have it towed

By the time the truck came and my mechanic get to take a look it is running BETTER THAN EVER He threw out a few possibilities..but really couldnt say anything for sure since it wasn't doing anything abnormal. I drive it home as normal and its running kinda rough but it gets me there. Turn the car off and once again its having a hard time staring...when it does start..theres a VERY small amount of blue smoke at first and the smell of gas.

Any ideas?

**Toasty** · 02-25-2008

sounds to me like your putting unburnt fuel into the exhaust... but i could be wrong, or that could be only part of the issue. i'd start with plugs and wires. --the flashing SES light points to misfires...

**Reptile** · 02-25-2008

It's fouling out, but finding the reason may be a headache. The blinking is probably from misfires resulting in over fueled plugs.

Do you have anything done to the car? Only thing that I can suggest right now is to let it warm up a little before you shut it off. When it's cold out and it's in open loop, it intentionally runs very rich...just the way it is. Yours could be going to the extreme.

one possibility could be a fuel pressure regulator, but I'm not gonna give that out as advice since I'm running short on cash this week.

lol *poke*

**Zef_66** · 02-26-2008

I would start with a tune up. Do plugs, wires, clean MAF, O2 sensor, PCV valve, etc and see where that takes you. Also, make sure the terminals on the coil are clean and use dielectric grease on the plug boots when you install them.

**19SE92** · 02-26-2008

The problem is the 02 sensor but which one. I'm leaning toward the front one because it reads the exhaust mixture. I'd almost bet that if you changed plug's wires and 02 sensor and fuel filter that it will fix the car.. because the lean bank one code is for the 02 sensor not reading right.

**Zef_66** · 02-26-2008

Originally Posted by 19SE92

The problem is the 02 sensor but which one. I'm leaning toward the front one because it reads the exhaust mixture. I'd almost bet that if you changed plug's wires and 02 sensor and fuel filter that it will fix the car.. because the lean bank one code is for the 02 sensor not reading right.

Since the rear O2 sensor doesn't really do anything of value, the front one is the only one that I would consider changing.

**archemedes** · 02-26-2008

but would an o2 sensor cause that issue. Does it have a missfire code (as in which cylinder or cylinders?)

**Toasty** · 02-26-2008

Originally Posted by 19SE92

The problem is the 02 sensor but which one. I'm leaning toward the front one because it reads the exhaust mixture. I'd almost bet that if you changed plug's wires and 02 sensor and fuel filter that it will fix the car.. because the lean bank one code is for the 02 sensor not reading right.

I hate to keep arguing with you, but i think you're wrong again. the lean bank one code (P0171) specifically notes that there are NOT any codes due to the O2. besides... the SES light is not going to trip from the 02 until after it is in closed loop operation, after the vehicle has warmed.

where's your money on this one?

**Trannyman95** · 02-26-2008

Just because there is a Lean 02 code doesnt mean the 02 sensor is bad. Bank 1 is the only bank there is on a 3800 car and it will display Bank 1 sensor 1 OR bank 1 sensor 2. Sensor 2 is the after-cat 02 sensor which has no effect on fueling and is just used to tell the pcm that the cat is working properly after the engine and cat have warmed up. If your maf sensor is dirty and not reading correctly it will cause the car to run lean, ANY lean condition can cause the code to turn on, not because the sensor is bad. A lean condition is the result of a problem, it doesnt mean you need to throw parts at the car that wont fix it. When you first start the car it runs in open loop anyways and doesnt read the 02 sensor until the engine warms up and the closed loop delay VS coolant temp in the pcm file has been satisfied. I agree though that it sounds like it is definately running too rich at startup and fuel fouling will cause the car to have a misfire, and a misfire is the only code that will cause the SES light to blink. If you have a weak ignition and it isnt allowing the car to start up when you crank then you are going to be dumping fuel into the cylinders and makes it harder to start. The fact that you have a lean code is pointing to other problems though which could be minor or major. The very common sources of vacuum leaks on your engine are throttle body gasket, supercharger gasket, lower intake gaskets, cracked plastic vacuum lines, bad evap lines. If you dont know the history of the spark plugs you should at least pull them out for an inspection. Since your problem is intermittent I would definately check out the ignition system components, check grounds, check for corrosion on coil terminals, check wiring harness on front of engine to make sure it isnt damaged.

**19SE92** · 02-26-2008

Ha the reason its missing is because the 02's reading to high or two low and its pulling to much timming or addinig it and its causing the cyclinder thats missing ti miss. So please listen to my advice and look into the 02 sensor..

**Reptile** · 02-26-2008

Originally Posted by 19SE92

Ha the reason its missing is because the 02's reading to high or two low and its pulling to much timming or addinig it and its causing the cyclinder thats missing ti miss. So please listen to my advice and look into the 02 sensor..

The coolant temp sensor is where??????

yeah...

**FoSHO99** · 02-26-2008

ha

X2 I would take what trannyman said to do

**archemedes** · 02-26-2008

Originally Posted by 19SE92

Ha the reason its missing is because the 02's reading to high or two low and its pulling to much timming or addinig it and its causing the cyclinder thats missing ti miss. So please listen to my advice and look into the 02 sensor..

how long have you been a mechanic? If you are one you cost yourself, or your shop a ton of money with your repair methods. I have yet to see a misfire caused by an O2 sensor being bad, I have seen some poor running cars from it, but never to this extent

**Toasty** · 02-26-2008

Originally Posted by 19SE92

Ha the reason its missing is because the 02's reading to high or two low and its pulling to much timming or addinig it and its causing the cyclinder thats missing ti miss. So please listen to my advice and look into the 02 sensor..

ugh.... the 02 sensor is in open loop condition when you start the vehicle. --essentially, if you want to think of it this way... when you start the car, and the 02 is in open loop, the 02 reading is pretty much ignored. once it goes into closed loop, THEN the 02 reading can affect things. about the only possibility of damage on the 02 sensor in this case is if the harness is damaged.

as for any other comments, i'll keep them to myself

Thread: Kinda Long..But I need help

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