Removing Oil Pan

**dhoeschen** · 05-04-2009

I have a spun rod bearing and have been trying to remove the oil pan without having to pull the engine. Looks like the engine cradle needs to be removed but I can't loosen the bolts!

Has anyone been able to do this -- or should I give up and find a place to pull the engine???

**blueguy** · 05-04-2009

You have to drop the cradle...they are huge 18 or 19mm bolts IIRC...

**Bio248** · 05-04-2009

just pull then engine. if you drop the cradle you have to figure out how to get the steering shaft back in as well as everything mounted up how it was supposed to.

pulling the engine should only take a couple hours.

**BlackGS** · 05-04-2009

I just dropped my oil pan in about 2 hours on Saturday with the engine in place. I have an engine support bar (- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices), but you can probably do the same thing with a 2x4 and some chain.

You will need to loosen the cradle bolts, but you do not need to remove the cradle or mess with the steering rack. The cradle bolts are 18mm. Use a big breaker bar on them.

You will also make the job a lot easier with a transmission jack.

Basically, what I do is this (car is jacked up safely on stands):

1. Remove the dogbone bolts.
2. Remove the engine mount top nuts.
3. Remove the tranny mount top nuts.
4. Jack up the engine/tranny so that the motor mount bracket clears the motor mount top bolts (just a couple inches). It must jack up evenly and not tilt forward. I use the tranny jack for this with some wood blocks.
5. Support the engine from above. This is necessary to keep it from tilting forward as you have to move/remove the tranny jack from under the oil pan.
6. Loosen the cradle bolts and let the cradle drop a couple inches. make sure you have the engine supported!
7. Remove the motor mount bracket bolts. These are a pain to get to. A ratcheting 15mm wrench works best.
8. Remove the motor mount bracket and flywheel cover.
9. Remove the front oil level sensor from the pan.
10. Drain the oil and drop the pan.

The only thing I caution with this method is that you don't crush the tranny pan or oil pan if jacking from underneath. You only need a few inches of clearance to get the motor mount bracket out of the way and clear the pan on the cradle. You may be able to get enough clearance by just dropping the cradle a little, but I found that jacking the engine up first works better.

**Ice Blue La Crosse** · 05-04-2009

Wow!!!

Dropin tha cradle just to drop a pan...

Lawd...what have i done buy buying a W-body...

**dhoeschen** · 05-05-2009

I would love to only have to drop the cradle to pull the pan, I'll give it another try this weekend...those cradle bolts on the engine are hard to get to.

What are the chances that the crank is damaged too? Then I will need the engine pulled.

Sounds like spun bearings are pretty common. I lost mine on a cold Minnesota morning. The engine was running a little rough, thought it was due to the cold weather (-16) until the oil pressure light started to flicker at idle. Then the engine died, after restarting I got a SES light and the ol' diesel sound of my rod thumping.

It threw a code for cylinder 5 misfire. The coil is dead, the unburnt fuel thinned out my oil and caused the low oil pressure. What I don't understand is why a got the code so late -- after the engine was trashed.

**BlackGS** · 05-05-2009

Spun bearings in these engines are common because the LIM gaskets are prone to failure and that lets coolant into the oil. Once the coolant gets in there, the lubrication breaks down and its all over.

In your case, it might have been no oil flow that caused the problem. When the oil pressure light comes on, it means you have less than 5psi which is basically no oil flowing. That could have been from oil being too cold and thick to flow. It doesn't take much time for a bearing to go with no lubrication at all.

I just had a problem where my timing cover was cracked on the inside (long story, my own fault for trying something stupid). The crack caused an internal leak that bled off oil pressure at idle. I only ran the engine for a few minutes, but when I dropped the pan, there were metal particles in there. My dumb mistake has me shopping for a new bottom end now.

**Bio248** · 05-05-2009

i run 10w-40 in my car and it only idles at 10 psi.

ill be getting a new block in the next year...

**blueguy** · 05-05-2009

Originally Posted by Bio248

i run 10w-40 in my car and it only idles at 10 psi.

And I thought mine was low at 25psi!!

**Bio248** · 05-06-2009

10 psi for every 1000 RPM, so im still good.

**dhoeschen** · 05-30-2009

I give up, this car hates me!!!

I was able to remove all the bolts for the engine mount and lift the engine out of the mounting cradle. I should have had plenty of room to pull the oil pan but something inside, probally the pickup, kept hanging up on the gasket or some part of the oil pan. I pulled, pushed, twisted...f'n thing -it's not coming off.

While I was in the process of removing the 5) 15mm bolts I thought to myself; how am I going to be able to get the bolts back in? What are the chances of lowering the engine and the holes line up? NOT VERY LIKELY!

Now, I'm going to have to pull the engine in order to put the bolts back in the engine mount cradle along with fixing a simple rod bearing.

Maybe I should just sell the flippin' thing!!! How much to you think I can get for a '99 GTP 4 door with 85K miles that needs repair?

**BlackGS** · 06-02-2009

It sounds like the gasket came off with the pan. If so, just separate the gasket from the pan and lower the pan. The gasket will definitely hang up on the filler tube.

Those 5 bolts are tough to get back in, but it can be done. I had to drop my pan 3 times in just a few days, and by the third time, I had those bolts going right in no problem. You do have the motor mount bracket free from the mount right?

**99prixgt** · 06-02-2009

damn i didn't know changing the oil pan gasket was that much work...I guess ill wait till i do a cam.

**Iroccamarofan** · 06-02-2009

The job only pays a tech 4.2 hours. It is easier to do in the ari rather than on the ground!!

**dhoeschen** · 07-25-2009

Finally got the oil pan off a few weeks ago... The oil pan gasket was stuck really good to the oil pan with some gray gasket goo. Then I had the engine lifted as high as it would go and the pan was still hanging up on the chassis engine mount. After an hour of frustration -- I pulled out the plasma torch and took about 3/8 of an inch off the frame -- pops right out.

I set the engine back down on a piece of DOM tubing so I could put the engine hoist away. Today all the rod bearings were replaced. Some looked pretty bad but not "spun" as I expected. All of the bearing notches were still in place.

I think I shoud check the main bearings next but I never heard an engine "knock" with bad main bearings...actually I've never seen an engine spin a main bearing but all my experience is with small & big block Chevrolet V8s.

Next there are cam bearings -- again, never seen a cam bearing spin...

Can a rod "knock" without spinning the bearing in the rod bore? Has anyone had a main bearing knock?

I fear putting the engine back together, hitting the key and hearing that knock again.