Printable View
Steven you the man. Infared temp gun.:D
I have to ask... assuming the snout is indeed cooler, does this mean that the heat from the case isn't being transferred away to additional surface area for overall cooling?
Steven do you need to borrow my Farnsworth supercharger oil removal tool so the job can be done quickly?
Guys do we trust this guy to not take $20 from me and claim, Lee's petro blend out performs even the GM stuff under the harshest conditions?
royalties, Steven, royalties
;)
No, the heat is still being transfered but keep in mind that the snout is sealed and therefore there is going to be some 'insulation' from heat transfer. Maybe not much but its there. Furthermore, its aluminum. I would think its dissipating ability would exceed its transfer ability given the thin layer of sealant between the snout and housing, particularly given the air movement under the hood.
The simple fact is that synthetic motor oil has a profound affect on friction. We are talking about some very high rpm's in there. It also 'seems' to indicate that the aeration is not as bad either. If it was I would imagine temps would spike pretty good from the lack of heat transfer.
I thought the GM stuff was full synthetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticShield
The rest is an interesting theory.
Oh and Steven how long and how much you are in boost will effect the readings. So you will have to travel the same path and try to drive the same.
Your saying that you 'think' the GM stuff is synthetic and thats not a theory too?
The fact about that is I have found very few people that could even give me any information at all about that lubricants. And there is no theory regarding the effect of synthetic motor oil on friction levels. There is no theory that the RPMs are high in the snout. There's no theory that aeration is bad for heat transfer. The only thing I was particularly guessing at would be how much the sealant for the snout affects heat transfer from the case. So Im not sure what exactly you are trying to point out.
I said I thought the GM stuff was synthetic. So until I can pull up where I saw that information outside of a car forum, it is theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticShield
Dissipation of heat pertaining to the eaton blower case versus snout versus fluid versus anaerobic sealant is is theory. And an intersting theory. Frictions levels versus oil...no debate there. I use full synthetic for the reasons you mentioned.
:confused: Just delete my threads. This started out as inoccent and me offering to help Steven out and a little kidding, but got out of hand...Sorry...I'm done.
Well no, I didnt mean it that way nor did I mean it to get out of hand, I was just trying to figure out where the theory part was. You had just stated that the rest was theory and I was trying figure out which part was. I didnt mean it as an attack.
I was just stating that there is not theory in the other parts. We can dig up the actual heat transfer of of the metals and fluids to get a better grasp of that. Scientific information is good but is not the end all be all that a lot of people make it out to be.
For example, cryo treating. Scientifically they cannot really explain why it works, but the real world application has proven over the years time and time again it is effective and had large positive effects with respect to such things as engines, transmissions and brakes. Heck, even the audio purists have started using it treating speaker wires, CD's and all sorts of things.
The short of it is I did not mean it as an attack. You said the rest was an interesting theory and I was just trying to find specifically to which part you were referring.
Just got an email back from Eaton. I figured it's best to get the info from the horse mount, just like the JP timing chain thing. Here is the response to one of a couple of emails I sent.
Hello
Standard off the shelf oil can NOT be used if you want to maintain the
performance of the bearings and seals
Automotive oils will build up to much pressure in the front cover and
start pushing the oil into or externally on the supercharger
The factory oil is a special lubricant that was specifically designed to
work in the supercharger
Arnie Dunai
Global Sales Manager Specialty and Retail Service Channels
Eaton Corp.
Aftermarket Performance Products
616-393-9398
616-394-0199 Fax
616-283-3387 Cell
I assume he doesn't mind me posting this with his contact information. If that part is inappropriate then please xxxx it out. I left it in for legitimacy. If I get any other replies to emails sent I will post them as well. If not then that's all I got.:(
Thats interesting. Id like to know how it builds up pressure with a breather nut on the snout to deal with that. I guess we'll see when I pull the blower off to put on my ported one.
I apologize I missed the attachment that Arnie attached with the specs for the M90 supercharger oil.
adding more to the story....I couldn't find the old gm spec sheet I had, but I did try to get a new si I sheet and it said to use gm supercharger lubricant. So their si has changed in the last 14 months at some point. If I do find the old sheet somewhere I'll still post it. I'v been running 5w30 syn for...14 months on a 3.2. Not saying its right just some more info.
Cool, if you find it, post it up or email it to me 'cause I am very curious about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndeedSS
He's right I tried it a long time ago. Pull the synthetic before it damages your snout seals and rotor bearing seals.
It will blow into the SC case and coat your rotors. You may still be OK because of the cooler temps right now, but it will eventually mess up the seals and the SC will leak internally. Been there done that!
Ron, I hear ya. Not that I doubt you or anything, but did you take pictures of its effects? Im just curious by nature and Id be interested in seeing the effects.
Guess I'll get some GM oil soon and change it out. What kind and what weight motor oil were you running Ron?
IIRC, the Supercharger oil is designed not to expand at the high temperature that the supercharger operates the way conventional oil does.
Now, Im not physicist, but Ive never heard of a fluid that did not expand with heat. Seems contrary to physics.
Do you argue about Chuck Norris physics???????
haha.
I think that it doesn't expand as much. I'm no expert on it...probably some BS that I read on ClubGP years ago.
LOL.
Well, not expanding much would sit better with me, hahaha.
Now my next thought would be, if expansion is the issue, then why not use a little less of the motor oil? Would that not be a way to counter the effect? Just thinking out loud at this point.
Brian, I don't think that was just something you saw on CGP. This has been noted on several other forums. As I read what Arnie wrote, my pea brain figured the "pressure" mentioned was due to expansion. BUT I'm only guessing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reptile
Using a little less oil would have no effect on the expanding. I would still expand at the same rate. A little less pressure would come because the air inside could be pressurized and there would be more air. But I don't think it would make much of a difference. My seals leak now on my old tired blower. I don't think I am going to experiment with it. Plus, it is not just the snout you are playing with. You are playing with the seals on the blower case, and the gears of the rotor set. It could be a costly experiment.Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticShield
I got a spare case, spare rotors and a spare snout.
I did not realize there were seals in the rotor packs, I was under the impression it was just bushings there or very tight tolerances. But if pressure is the major thing that leads to all the other, there are ways to deal with that I would imagine. Vent reliefs and and so on.
What you get into at that point is if its worth it all? Does the work to vent the pressure to stop the leaks out weight the benefits of being able to run a synthetic motor oil that will run cooler and is more convenient to get? For me, yeah but only because I like to experiment and try new things and ideas out. To me if I ruined the blower or the rotor pack more specifically that is just the cost of education to me.
The bearings in the snout arent going to be bothered by all this, nor will the viton seals, but if oil gets past the rotor pack gears and into the blower and thus into the intake, then yeah, thats not good or desirable. If that is occurring solely due to a pressure build up, then I would be inclined to find a solution. However, since I dont have an immediate solution to that (I have some ideas in my head already) I can switch back to the GM lubricant until such time I can come up with one.