Thread: what kind of oil?

Originally Posted by IndeedSS

I'm feeling am Amsoil vibe? am I close? fwiw I like Amsoil or the idea behind it? It was the enviromental thing that gave me the vibe...that and I just realized your sn, could be anything, but...

Well I do deal in it and I havent said anything here because I did not want there to be the perception that I use this forum as a customer base. There are local members that may contact me because they know I deal in it and have a few customers from the local club but other than that I keep it out of here.

Additionally I NEVER sell it as the end all be all lubricant. I have run across customers that get better results (oil analysis wise) on other products and I gladly tell them I cannot improve upon what they have unless they need a greases, transmission fluids, etc. Amsoil is a VERY good product free of a lot of the 'hold backs' the other blenders deal with. But what I have learned and try to learn about lubrication is not just to sell more product, its so I can also identify those customers that are better off spending their money elsewhere and on other products.

Im not a tree hugger either. But I will and do believe in doing what we can to keep from intentionally damaging the environment. If a spotted owl flies in front of my car and I hit it, I aint going to shed many tears. If its sitting in the road and I can avoid it, I will.

So I believe in doing what you can within your ability and knowledge to do and if we all do that, things will be much much better and I'll leave that at that so that this discussion doesnt go off track.

It wasn't a shot at all, so please don't take it that way. I figured if you sold it, I might get mine from you. The problem with me is no matter how long you can go between oil changes, I'll always be the under 5000 mile person.Shameful I know, but I'm part of the old timer crowd.

Oh, Please Indeed, forgive me if I came across that way. I was just trying to state the situation as clearly as I could, not that I thought you came across as an attack. So forgive me if I gave that impression.

You would be surprised how many customers I have that still do the same short intervals you do. I try to tell them to save their money but they just wont do so and keep coming back. Early on, I did a couple free oil analysis just to prove to them they were okay but they stuck to their guns so I wont argue with them anymore.

haha...old farts

Not a problem you didn't come off in any kind of negative way. I was trying to be careful as the "which oil" threads can get ugly, because people are passionate about oil.

Oh yeah, definitely. I like discussing the issue intelligently. I dont know everything and so I continue to try and learn. But on the other forum you seemed to always get the yahoos that would come in there and get all belligerent about it and it just took the fun away.

You are so right in your assement. I can only tolerate that place long enough to look for reviews on new things for about a half hour every few months, if that.

Ok so I am thinking if I can find it, I am going to use royal purple, if not I am going to go castrol full synthetic.
Now comes even more debate, since it is still really cold out, but soon going to be warming up, what viscocity would you use? i.e. 10w30, 5w30, tc. etc.

Okay, next oil lesson.

Q: What does a 10W30 and 5W30 have in common?
tick tock tick tock tick tock
bzzzzzzzzzzzz, times up

A: They are BOTH 30 weight motor oils.

#### Warning: Long Winded Post ####

In the realm of synthetics, season has little to do with what viscosity you should run.

Because, as mentioned I am familiar with their products I will use Amsoil 5W30 and 10W30 motor oils to illustrate my point. All this information can be found on their website.

First, lets show that they are both the same thickness.
If you look at the technical properties information for the 5W30 and 10W30 you will see a number for Kinematic Viscosity. One is done at 100*C and one at 40*C. You will see that at 100*C there is no difference and at 40*C it is a negligable difference. Viscosity is a measure of a fluids thickness or resistance to flow, as you can see both motor oils have nearly identical viscosities which would state they have nearly the same resistance to flow which would further state they are nearly identical in thickness.

Okay, moving on, lets look at some cold flow properties to determine which oil is going to be better for cold temperatures. Which one is going to flow less or take longer to flow in cold or extrememe temperatures. If you again look at the technical properties sheet for both products you will see a number for Pour Point. This is a measure at what temperature the motor oil will cease to pour. In other words, at temperature at which point the oil would have to reach to virtually cease flowing. See the number? Its -58*F. Anyone around here live in that climate? If you do, you need other options. Perhaps a 0W motor oil or a block heater.

So you may be asking, then, what is the difference between the two? Well there are two things to look at:

1. Cold Cranking
2. Evaporation rate

First the Cold Cranking.

Referring back to the technical properties sheet for both products, you will see a listing for CCS Viscosity. This stands for Cold Cranking Simulation. In technical terms the Cold Crank Simulator Test determines the apparent viscosity of lubricants at low temperatures and high shear rates. In laymen terms it is a mesure that directly relates engine cranking and startability under cold weather conditions.

The problem here is that you cannot make a direct apples to apples comparison. The reason is that it is stipulated that 10W30 motor oils be tested at a different temperature than 5W30 motor oils. 5W30's are tested at -30*C and 10W30's are tested at -25*C and that small of a temperature range does make a difference. If the 5W30 were tested at -25*C its CCS cP (Centipose) would likely be in the mid 3000 range. Just guestimating, I dont know for fact. The pont being is that a 5W30 will offer less resistance to starting than a 10W30.

That know, consider this. How many of you start vehicles in that low of a temperature? Again, if you do, you are likely equipped with a block heater or you need to consider something along the line of a 0W motor oil. I doubt many would be able to tell the difference with the exception of those in the extreme north east, north central areas and Alaska. And consider this, how much time do you spend starting your vehicle? If your battery is in good state and the starting system in good shape a 5W30 or 10W30 is going to make little difference.

Next is the Evaporation rate, and this is where the diffence between the two is key. Looking back at the technical properties sheet, you will see a line that shows Noack Volatility. This is a measure of a motor oils evaporation rate. And is measure in the % of weight lost. Want to guess what time of year this really applies? Nope, not winter. Notice the 5W30 has higher evaporation rate than the 10W30 does. Odd huh?

Ever wonder where your oil goes between oil changes and you know you filled it up to the full line, but come time to change the oil and it looks like you are a 1/4 qt or 1/2 quart low? You got no external leaks, no burnt oil smell nothing on the ground. Well, its likely you have lost it to evaporation. Want to know what the failure point is for petroleum motor oil? 15%!! Yep, if a petroleum motor oil evaporates more than 15% it fails API certification. What does THAT tell you about API standards?

Essentially a 10W30 motor oil is more shear stable than a 5W30. So if I have a customer that comes to me and says I have checked everything, my mechanic has checked everything and no where is a leak found but I keep loosing this oil, I'll first put them on a 10W30. In many of the cases using a 10W30 has significantly reduced or completely eliminated the oil loss. If it continues then I get into testing the motor oil to see if there is some sort of internal issue.

If you look at the rest of the technical sheet you will see that all other tests run show nearly identical numbers. TBN, HT/HS, Four ball Wear test and so on.

So with regards to which oil you should run in the winter or summer, it really does not make a difference in any case but really extreme ones. You'll be fine with either one. I know I could have said that in the beginning, but aren't you glad you read all this now? Dont you feel just smarter? Think of all the great trivia you just learned to impress your friends with.

mobile 1 since i put it she runs like a charm.

Awesome info, dude! I found the royal purple 10w30 and I cleaned them out! haha. and I got some new autolite 605's to put in. Now all I have left to get is some gm supercharger oil, unless you guys have another suggestionto run for that.

Originally Posted by s1795so2

Awesome info, dude! I found the royal purple 10w30 and I cleaned them out! haha. and I got some new autolite 605's to put in. Now all I have left to get is some gm supercharger oil, unless you guys have another suggestionto run for that.

Steven, just so you know Wise Speed Shop carries Royal Purple products. You know the speed shop in STL that has been in business since 1961. They had it cheaper than anyone else. I buy it buy the case and use 5w-30. Back when I saw it at O'reilly's for $8 Wise was still selling it for just under $5. It's around $6 a qt now.iirc

Originally Posted by s1795so2

Awesome info, dude! I found the royal purple 10w30 and I cleaned them out! haha. and I got some new autolite 605's to put in. Now all I have left to get is some gm supercharger oil, unless you guys have another suggestionto run for that.

Wanna guess what Im running in my supercharger?
Amsoil fully synthetic 0W-20. Now in all fairness, I havent been running it long. I was going to run a gear oil, since essentially, thats what its doing is lubricating gears, but I could find no real data on what the GM supercharger oil is made up of. So I went on what I was sure would be the thin side of things and put in the 0W20. I have heard of people running a 5W30 with great success. Which in either case its really good because you dont have that foul smelling mess to deal with.

The only reason I can see that the GM supercharger oil is special is that it may have additives that cut down on aeration of the oil with the rotational speeds that thing sees. But to be quite frank, there is enough in there (oil that is) that even if the oil did aerate it would never leave the gears unprotected.

For right now, I'll continue to run the 0W20 and if it fails I'll let everyone know, but I dont foresee that happening.

Well I probably wont know anything definitive for a while. I still need to suck out the current oil at least one more time and replace it with fresh 0W20 to make sure I have all the old GM stuff out of there. But I will be sending in a sample for analysis and I will let you guys know.

Someone with connections needs to ask Eaton what spec is required. They don't make superchargers for GM only. Guessing doesn't seem to be a good idea. Heck the GM stuff isn't much $$ for how long it can be left in.

Thanks for that info on the speed shop, Lee.
The funny thing is I asked if oreilys carried supercharger oil, and none of the people working had ever even heard of it. I was like are you serious? Then the manager brought up that she had a mclaren turbo and never needed any oil. I was like well there are different types of oil feeds for turbos and superchargers, needless to say I paid for my stuff and left. I probably won't be going back to there any time soon, unless absolutely neccesary.

Synthetic and Lee, do you think that running 5w30 would be okay in the supercharger. Is there any write up you may have found with reveiws of running it like this?

If you go by smell, its dead in a few hundred miles

I truly feel that the motor oil will be fine, but I will report if it fails. If not I'll take a sample of it and have it tested. The only problems there could be would be:

1. Its incompatible with the metal the gears are made of.
I doubt this since they seem to be standard steel gears

2. Its incompatible with the coupler.
This is the most likely of all the scenarios

3. It aerates to much and starts chewing on the gears.
Again, theres enough oil in such small enclosed area that even if the oil aerates, it wouldnt have any affect on the gears.

Originally Posted by s1795so2

Synthetic and Lee, do you think that running 5w30 would be okay in the supercharger. Is there any write up you may have found with reveiws of running it like this?

I dont know of any write ups or reviews, just cases I have ran across of people using it for a long time with no ill affects. See my above post for the possibilities. If the oil doesnt cause any issues, after a few months or so I will send in a sample for testing and see what they have to say.

I've heard the spec on this before, but cannot remember what is was or the reason why the GM label stuff is really only stuff that should be used. This stuff is labeled under another name but is more expensive than the GM. LOL I think it may be the ford guys that were buying the GM IIRC.

Originally Posted by IndeedSS

I've heard the spec on this before, but cannot remember what is was or the reason why the GM label stuff is really only stuff that should be used. This stuff is labeled under another name but is more expensive than the GM. LOL I think it may be the ford guys that were buying the GM IIRC.

That is prolly the most likely scenario, friggin fords haha.