Car died in traffic, won't stay running.

**Deezul_AwT** · 07-25-2008

Driving home from work today, I got stuck in a bit of traffic. I was crawling along, then my 2000 Grand Prix GT died. Seemed kind of strange, as the sat radio, radio, and GPS worked fine, and windows went up and down fine. No check engine light either.

So I tried restarting. Car ran for a bit, but as soon as my foot came off the gas, it died. If I kept giving the car gas, it would keep running.

I had it towed to a shop that's close by, they probably won't be able to look at it until Monday. I just had a bunch of work on it in February, including plugs and wires. I haven't done any modding since April.

Didn't sound like a starter, and when the engine was running, it sounded fine. Probably not the battery either, since everything was running when I was stopped. Bad battery cables or alternator? Vacuum leak? I don't think the fuel filter was replaced back in April. Any thing else I can suggest to the shop to reduce the labor for checking it out?

**02BlueGT** · 07-25-2008

MAF? when mine was bad it was a stalling issue, no light, and would start right back up

**SyntheticShield** · 07-26-2008

Yeah, it doesnt sound like the typical symptoms of a Crank sensor, so I too would lean more to the maf at the moment. Others have suggested trying to unplug it and see if it will run. If so, you know its the problem, if not, you can continue on troubleshooting.

**Street Wolf** · 07-26-2008

Check the fuel resistors located in the fuse box under the hood. It could also possibly a bad fuel pump as well.

**Deezul_AwT** · 07-26-2008

Fuel pump is what the shop said it could be. Assuming they haven't taken it in the shop yet, I might drive by it (not fenced in) on Sunday and try some quick things; fuses, unplug battery for 30 seconds, etc. Enough that it doesn't look like I'm trying to steal it! Because technically they are responsible for it now, and if I did take it, I would be stealing it.

**Reptile** · 07-27-2008

Don't let them yank you for a new fuel pump if you can help it. They should do a pressure test, and it should be at around 50 psi.

Could also be a FPR, definitely sounds fuel related though. A bad MAF will make it run like poo, worse than if you just unplugged it.

**Deezul_AwT** · 07-28-2008

I don't know about bad MAF, as it doesn't run, period. I suspect fuel related; I don't think the fuel filter was replaced back in February when I had a lot of work done. I should know later this afternoon. Depending on what it is, I may just have them put everything back together and do it myself if it's not too bad.

**Zef_66** · 07-28-2008

Best way to tell really quick if it is a bad MAF is unplug it. If the car runs better, it is the MAF. If the car runs the same or worse, probably not the MAF.

Try it and see. Very quick check. Did this on my dad's NA bonneville and he was amazed that it worked and correctly diagnosed the MAF sensor.

**Deezul_AwT** · 07-28-2008

Originally Posted by Zef_66

Best way to tell really quick if it is a bad MAF is unplug it. If the car runs better, it is the MAF. If the car runs the same or worse, probably not the MAF.

Try it and see. Very quick check. Did this on my dad's NA bonneville and he was amazed that it worked and correctly diagnosed the MAF sensor.

Not sure what you mean by "same or worse." It's never run "bad" before this happened. My Impala runs better, but it's also a 2004 vs. 2000, has less mileage, and I had previous maintenance records for the Impala that showed the previous owner kept up. The GP? I got nothing regarding records, and in fact I'm fairly confident the seller had someone clear the check engine light that came on while my wife drove it home. That was only a bad t-stat, but still, if you don't fix a check engine line, you're unlikely to have done the regular maintenance. Kind of hoping it's just dirty fuel filter, and I'll end up paying mainly for labor, not parts.

**Zef_66** · 07-28-2008

Originally Posted by Deezul_AwT

Not sure what you mean by "same or worse." It's never run "bad" before this happened. My Impala runs better, but it's also a 2004 vs. 2000, has less mileage, and I had previous maintenance records for the Impala that showed the previous owner kept up. The GP? I got nothing regarding records, and in fact I'm fairly confident the seller had someone clear the check engine light that came on while my wife drove it home. That was only a bad t-stat, but still, if you don't fix a check engine line, you're unlikely to have done the regular maintenance. Kind of hoping it's just dirty fuel filter, and I'll end up paying mainly for labor, not parts.

When I say "same or worse" I mean, right now, your car won't stay running. If you pull the plug and disconnect the MAF sensor, and try to start your car, does it do the same thing and not stay running? Or does it run better? If it runs better, then the MAF is most likely the culprit. If there is no change in how the car is running from before you pulled the plug on the MAF, then look for something else.

Oh, and unplug the MAF when the car is not running.

**Deezul_AwT** · 07-28-2008

Originally Posted by Zef_66

When I say "same or worse" I mean, right now, your car won't stay running. If you pull the plug and disconnect the MAF sensor, and try to start your car, does it do the same thing and not stay running? Or does it run better? If it runs better, then the MAF is most likely the culprit. If there is no change in how the car is running from before you pulled the plug on the MAF, then look for something else.

Oh, and unplug the MAF when the car is not running.

Didn't have a chance to check it out yesterday due to weather, so I might stop by and try again tonight. Just called the shop and they haven't taken it in yet. I'll probably still leave the car there even if it is the MAF, just to have them check out other electrical/gas issues.

**Deezul_AwT** · 07-28-2008

I got out to the GP. Car has not run since Friday evening, so first I thought I'd just power it up. Ran for a good 3-4 minutes, then died. Disconnected MAF, ran OK I guess, although it did run at a little bit lower idle. But it ran until I turned it off. Hooked up MAF, ran for 30 seconds then died. Disconnected MAF, ran again, bouncing he idle between 800-1200 (usually steady at 1000 in park.) Turned it off myself. Reconnected again, tried REAL hard to recover itself when the idle got low, increasing the gas itself as it got low. Finally couldn't do it and died.

Haynes manual shows the MAF sensor replacement is a 5 minute job. The shop where my car is at is 4 miles from my house. Should I just disconnect the MAF and drive it home and swap it myself? Or should I not risk the drive? I'm just a little paranoid that I'll get it home, replace the MAF, and it'll die on me again.

MAF sensor runs about $150, right? Did a quick RockAuto check of it. I can get to an Autozone or Advanced so as not to wait for them, AC Delco part is listed as $200 and there are two dealerships where I could get that.

**Sabrewings** · 07-28-2008

To replace the MAF, you need security torx bits. It's a torx bit, but the screw has a dimple in the center to prevent regular torx bits from working. The security torx bits have a depression in the center so they can still slide in over the dimple.

Definitely sounds like the issue. Yes, the car is going to run weird without the MAF (PCM is relying on the VE table), but the fact is that it runs. Very recently there was an Impala owner at NAIOA who had the same issues. Ran without the MAF, but died quickly with it plugged in. Replaced the MAF and all is good.

**Deezul_AwT** · 07-28-2008

Believe it or not, but I think I have a set of security bits. Bought a set that also included hex bits in SAE and Metric from Home Depot. Just have to find it. Guess I'll call the shop first thing in the morning and ask them to leave the car alone. I'll go back there in the evening and try to drive the car home without the MAF. Only one road is two lanes, but it's down hill so I can coast if I have to!

**Zef_66** · 07-29-2008

Sounds very much like the MAF is bad to me. If you can wait, I would get a MAF from Ed. He has them for much cheaper. But if you need the car, I can understand buying local. But if it were me, and my car had those symptoms, I would replace the MAF.

Like Sabre said, the car is going to run weird without the MAF. It has no way to gauge how much air is coming into the engine. So it has to use the preset VE table to guess how much air is coming in. Yeah, won't run exactly right. But the fact that it runs tells me that the MAF is probably bad.

Same exact thing happened to my dad. He doubted it was the MAF sensor because it was only a year old. Did that easy, little test, and acted the same as yours did. He sucked it up and replaced the MAF, and it works fine.

And yes, you can drive just fine without the MAF sensor. Again, may not run perfectly. May stall once or twice. But it will run and drive home, no worries.

**Deezul_AwT** · 07-29-2008

Just check my local Autozone, $138 for remanufactured, and they have one left. Core charge, so I'll take off the bad one and just take it in so I can save the cost. Only reason I won't go with Ed is I don't want to play tag mailing one back and forth if he sends a bad one. Is there any way to check if one is bad or failing, or is it kind of "it works, or it doesn't." I'd hate to get a working one from Ed then have it die on me three weeks later.

**Zef_66** · 07-29-2008

Originally Posted by Deezul_AwT

Just check my local Autozone, $138 for remanufactured, and they have one left. Core charge, so I'll take off the bad one and just take it in so I can save the cost. Only reason I won't go with Ed is I don't want to play tag mailing one back and forth if he sends a bad one. Is there any way to check if one is bad or failing, or is it kind of "it works, or it doesn't." I'd hate to get a working one from Ed then have it die on me three weeks later.

You would have to check with Ed about all this. But from I know, he gives a 3 mo warranty on all the parts he sells. A reman sensor (which only lasted for 1.5 years for my dad...how long did your stock GM one last?) will typically only have a one year warranty. And Ed does advertise on his ebay parts that they are tested. So they should work when they arrive. They are usually they work, or they don't.

I have never got any bad parts from Ed. On the rare occasion I have heard of someone that does, he will send them another part ASAP. He has a really good reputation for great customer service.

As for email tag, just call him. Phone number is 216-671-3736. Then you can get the part, pay for it, and have it done in no time. Not saying you should go with Ed. Just saying, if money is tight, he is a really good alternative to get the part for half price. And he has all original GM units. Nothing rebuilt. Nothing reman.

But as a thought, does the MAF from your impala work in the GT? I think they should. Then you could drive the GT until you get a replacement MAF (I saw your rant thread.

)

**Deezul_AwT** · 07-29-2008

Originally Posted by Zef_66

But as a thought, does the MAF from your impala work in the GT? I think they should. Then you could drive the GT until you get a replacement MAF (I saw your rant thread.

)

True enough. Rock Auto shows the part# as the same. I've already got several items on hold with Ed due to Cat turn in, so maybe I will call and see how much "credit" I still have left and have them get it out today and have it by the weekend. Just have to keep a set of security torx wrenches, and move around the MAF as needed for a few days.

**Deezul_AwT** · 07-29-2008

Just called Ed, they are out! But a radio I've been waiting for is in, so it's somewhat good. I put in the order and I'll play musical MAF sensors until I get replacment from Ed.