Fram oil filters - crap or not??

**MrTube** · 12-06-2010

40th GP. You are correct for the most part, except there is something you are forgetting.

When you shut the engine off the valvetrain and all is filled with oil, all of this oil drains back through the filter and will push unfiltered oil back into the engine.

My dad had issues with Frams on his 97 chevy pickup. He would have lifters tapping every morning because of it. Once he switched to WIX it never happened again. He still uses the truck for plowing, haven't heard a lifter tap for 10 years.

This doesn't mean Fram didn't fix the problem, who knows a lot can happen in 10 years right?

**01gpgt01** · 12-06-2010

X2 with what Mr tube said. My wifes car is a 2003 eclipse GTS. The forums are filled with posts about valvetrain chatter with Fram filters and the issues with the drainback valves. Ive decided to not run those after I experianced the same chatter with a fram filter on her car. I use Wix when I can.

**MBruneaux** · 12-06-2010

Originally Posted by TorqueAutoMotiv

I have used fram tough gaurd for years and never had an issue

X2 in both the GP and the wife's Rover. I use K&N or Mobile 1 because they come as a package at the parts store usually.

**40th GP** · 12-07-2010

Originally Posted by MrTube

40th GP. You are correct for the most part, except there is something you are forgetting.

When you shut the engine off the valvetrain and all is filled with oil, all of this oil drains back through the filter and will push unfiltered oil back into the engine.

My dad had issues with Frams on his 97 chevy pickup. He would have lifters tapping every morning because of it. Once he switched to WIX it never happened again. He still uses the truck for plowing, haven't heard a lifter tap for 10 years.

This doesn't mean Fram didn't fix the problem, who knows a lot can happen in 10 years right?

I have been thinking on this all night and have some questions about your thoughts. I can see how the oil that is in the oil galleries that has been pumped to the top of the engine would remain in the lines after shut down, and that gravity would pull this back toward the filter. I don't see how oil that has already shot out of the galleries (now in the valvetrain) would find it's way back through the galleries. This oil (already filtered) would fall harmlessly back down to the pan.

As for the unfiltered oil that has just entered the filter from the pan but has not yet been filtered, the only place for this to go (on ANY filter) is right back into the pan, where it would then be filtered again before it went anywhere, and where it had previously been filtered before falling back into the pan last time. Any oil that is in the galleries that finds it way back to the filter (which I don't believe would be much) would be already filtered oil, and if it went back far enough would be filtered immediately on start up the next time. You are not going to lose much if any this way on our cars.

So, I can see your rational and I believe you are right that some oil could possibly find it's way back out of the filter, but this is going to be a very small amount if any, and is going to land in the pan (right where it just came from, and with the rest of the oil that is also still unfiltered). So again, this is not a problem on OUR vehicles-although it could be a problem on vehicle's with a different filter orientation-see below).

The real problem is on cars where the filter sits oriented upright (or even sideways). In that case all the oil in the filter could run back into the pan if the drainback valve failed. The problem here is not that filtered oil mixes with unfiltered oil in the pan. The problem is that on the next startup you have no oil pressure because there is now air (instead of oil) in the oil filter. This means your engine is running without oil until the pump can fill the filter with oil and pump it up to the engine. Since our filter sits upright where all the oil stays in the filter, I still fail to see how a problem with the drainback valve would be more than a minor issue on our cars. I have worked as a lube tech and ASE certified technician but I am not an engineer, so my thinking could be wrong. Can anyone shed some light on this?

I would have no idea about valvetrain clatter caused by the filter, but I would suspect in this case it is a flow issue, and still not a drainback valve issue. I am not sure why a Fram wouldn't flow at least the manufacturers recommended flow, but I could be wrong.

**SlowNA06** · 12-07-2010

Originally Posted by 40th GP

The Fram guts were all metal, and the filter media looked a little better as well (although that was just my impression based on what I could see through the peep-hole). The can actually felt stronger on the Fram as well, but that is subjective opinion as well based solely on my highly-calibrated finger squeeze test.

Could you edit your post with which Fram filter you looked at, please? They have a two or three different types of varying quality.

**MrTube** · 12-07-2010

40th when I said valvetrain I was more referencing the lifters and what is in the galleries. The pump will take time to fill all of that back up.

You are right to some extent in regards to it not being a huge deal on our vehicles. My dads truck has the filter on an angle due to the 4WD system. I had a 92 chevy pickup also with a 350SBC and the filter hung completely vertical, never had an issue with a Fram on it but refused to use them out of principle

.

**40th GP** · 12-07-2010

Originally Posted by SlowNA06

Could you edit your post with which Fram filter you looked at, please? They have a two or three different types of varying quality.

I don't usually buy Fram so I don't know their line names, but it was the middle grade filter. I think it was extended guard. It was not the top $ one in the silver box, but it was not the cheapo in the plain orange box (which I don't believe has the bedliner type grip stuff on the end). If you want the exact for sure, I can check when I get home tonight and repost.

**matt5112** · 12-07-2010

extended guard is their best filter that they sell here.

**40th GP** · 12-07-2010

Is that is a silver box? Mine came in an orange box with gold lettering on the top.

**matt5112** · 12-07-2010

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fram_(oil_filter)

the synthetic one is the one i'm talking about.

They claim its a synthetic medium and now its good for 15 000 km instead of the old 11 000 km.

**MrTube** · 12-07-2010

Originally Posted by matt5112

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fram_(oil_filter)

the synthetic one is the one i'm talking about.

They claim its a synthetic medium and now its good for 15 000 km instead of the old 11 000 km.

9000 miles instead of 7000 eh?

**40th GP** · 12-07-2010

I will check tonight and report back which it is for sure. In looking at the boxes on their site (Oil Filters | Products | FRAM®), I believe it was the extra guard. Does that mean I got the bottom of the line then? The ones above that were overpriced in my opinion and for that price I think there are better filters.

**matt5112** · 12-07-2010

xtend guard or however they spell it...

do NOT use high mileage filters, they have **** in there that can clog your engine.

Some high mileage oils dont even have API certification stickers on the label.

**40th GP** · 12-07-2010

So the filter I got is the Extra Guard. This is the lowest-end filter shown on their site, but I thought they had a bare-bones filter at WalMart that didn't have the grippy stuff and was the bottom end. Maybe I am wrong on that though, but either way I felt this filter was as good or better quality than the functionally identical looking Delco and SuperTech filters when comparing the three side by side.

**matt5112** · 12-07-2010

the CH line doesnt have the grip but they have more applications available in that line.

the PH line has the grip.

XG = synethetic and HG = high mileage, but those are quite junky.

**05CompG** · 12-07-2010

Ive used Fram on all of my previous cars and currently there is a Tough Guard fram on my GP and ive never experienced trouble...

**matt5112** · 12-07-2010

run better oil and a better filter.

Its better for your engine.

**motorking** · 12-08-2010

Originally Posted by matt5112

run better oil and a better filter.

Its better for your engine.

Wow-
So much misinformation and misconception its really hard to decide where to begin.
I am the technical manager at Fram. I am also a shop owner and ASE certified master technician for over 30 yrs. My best friend, Dave Buckshaw is the former owner of DHP, tuners of some of the very fastest 3800's in the USA, in fact we met when he tuned a regal I had built the crap out of.
Fram product line up is this-
Extra guard, lowest price filter orange can. Has 94% single pass efficiency, hold around 7 grams of dirt till bypass, recommended for 3-4000 miles oil changes. Has a black nitrile rubber antidrainback valve. Has fiber end caps, same as Honda OE filters, Subaru OE filters, Bentley OE filters and even AC Delco now have felt end caps.
Tough Guard- 98% single pass efficiency, silver can,synthetic glass and cellulose media, silicone rubber antidrainback valve. Holds around 14 grams of dirt to bypass. recommeded for oil changes up to 7500 miles, has the same end caps as above. Mid grade filter.
Extended Guard- Top of the line filter. Gold can, Has two fully synthetic ply media wrapped around a stainless steel screen. Metal end caps. All silicone valves. Gaurenteed for 10,000 mile oil changes, holds up to 28 grams of dirt, recommended for use with synthetic oil. There is no better oil filter in the market for passenger cars. 98% efficiency.
High Mileage filter. This is a extra guard filter that has a basket inside. the basket contians a timed release gel chemical that maintians the acid balance and total base number of the oil in high mile, blow by challenged engines. IT does not CLOG your engine. This technology is being used as OE in big OTR trucks to extend oil life and drain intervals.
On a 3800, the filter is mounted near vertical. Unless the laws of gravity suddenly have changed, the oil does not drain out while the engine is off. The antidrainback valves ONLY function is to keep oil from draining out of the filter when the filter is mounted horizontally! It does not stop oil from flowing back from the engine into the filter, since it is fed from the oil pump and the ADB valve will not open unless you have oil pressure, what one poster is thinking is just not physically possible. All oil in the engine at any time except what is in the sump has already passed through the filter. When the engine is off or running, gravity drains this oil back to the pan where it is sucked up by the oil pump, pushed through the filter before it goes into the engine. Fram stands behind its products 100%. If you ever experienced a failure due to a defective oil filter, we would be buying you an engine period. Fram filters are made in the USA and Canada. WIX is very busy building filters in India, they filter in the 80% range, have only one filter for pass cars, do not have a filter for synthetic oil or extended drain intervals and are OE on Nothing. Use whatever filter you like, just change you oil when your supposed to and use good oil.

**matt5112** · 12-08-2010