Thread: Oil Pan Gasket, Crank Seal/Timing cover.

Okay, you asked a lot here. Hope I can get over it all. First off, my experience comes from owning GTPs. But for the oil pan and front engine stuff, it should be mostly the same. But I think you basically have the right idea. The engine needs to be supported from above. Then either the cradle needs to be dropped, or the engine needs to be lifted enough to remove the lower engine mount bracket. Neither are particularly fun. I have done it both ways and I think if I had to do it again, I would pull the entire engine. But that is just me.

But to back up a bit I guess, are you sure it is leaking oil, or does it just appear to be leaking oil? What I mean, does it leave oil spots on the driveway? Do you notice that you need to add oil between oil changes? Or can you just see it is a little wet in some areas? In all my high mileage 3800s, I have never seen the front cover leak oil very much. Nothing that would leave a puddle of oil anyway. Are you sure it is oil, and not coolant from the LIM gaskets, coolant elbows, or water pump? Or possibly from the oil filter when changing oil? As, for the oil pan leak (which are very common), is the oil coming from the oil pan, or from the rear main, as they are known to leak as well. Or even from the tranny pan gasket?

With that said, the only special tools I can think of would be the engine support. A ratcheting wrench helps get the engine mount bracket bolts off. 15mm I think. They are in a very tight space. For the engine support, I used 2 4x4s. One I cut to length to run across the back of the engine bay, from strut tower to strut tower. I angled each end a little to it sit more flat. And drilled a hole directly above the rear engine lift bracket. The second 4x4 length is not as critical. But I cut it long enough to go from the back of the first 4x4 to the rad support. Then notched out half of one end to sit on the back 4x4. And rested the front on a couple blocks of wood so it would sit more level. Then I drilled a hole directly above the front engine lift bracket. Then I used long, thick eye hooks to support the engine. And like I mentioned earlier, once I dropped the cradle out from under the car. The other time I raised the engine using a jack and these hooks to get enough clearance to remove the oil pan.

While you are working on it, I would suggest changing the LIM gaskets, heater hoses, rad hoses, t-stat, water pump, and belt. If the upper intake manifold needs replaced in the process, do that as well.

I didn't go much into changing the front cover gasket as I can't really imagine it needs done. And there isn't much advice I can offer for that.

I'm gonna follow in his footsteps on not giving you much info. BTW, if you want a front and rear crank seal, pm me and I'll send both for the cost of shipping. Think about why I have a pile of them. Hardly ever go bad.

On the leaks. First off, clean things down and be positive which areas you are heading for, before you pull parts. We all like to learn the hard way, but I'm suggesting the easier way first.

The leak near the rear of your motor. I'm willing to put $5 on it not being the pan or rear main seal. I'd put the money that it's the rear engine cover.

The bolts on this cover are at a pathetic torque spec with no thread lock at all. It is common for this cover to seep at the very bottom covers and appear like an oil pan leak.

Special tools:
3 m6 x 1.00 x 75-85mm bolts to pull the balancer (99% of balancer pulling kits have the bolts)
Seal puller. It'll look like a T handle with sharp bends on the top of the T.

If you don't pull the engine to do the rear cover, I'd unbolt the engine side mount and jack the motor up. then short chain it to a 4x4 (we all have them) and do the work.

Ive been through the in the car change of pan gasket, oil pump, front cover, water pump, timing set replacement in frame and i tell you what it wasnt fun and it took forever! I went the cherry picker route as thats what was accessible to me and it wasnt really in the way as much as you would think. But i have also pulled the engine an done this job out of frame. In all honesty out of frame was a million times easier and much quicker but if you want to do it in frame it can be done. Your going to have to pry at the pan to get it to come down but it will as long as you have the engine lifted high enough. An along with all you already plan to change i would suggest changing the rocker box cover gaskets while your in there and also the timing chain dampener and cam pos sensor magnet and yes change the waterpump while your there aswell. Good luck

billboost posted a picture of it with his post

Factory FSM's dont' show locktite on the rear cover bolts. And they use GM Pipe Sealant with PTFE on the front bolts because they go into water jackets and seepage could occur w/o it.

While it might be slow to change a pan gasket in the car. Pulling and reinstalling the engine to change only a pan gasket is a bit much. However if you intend on doing the rear cover, then there is no choice unless you were swapping the trans out and were pulling that off the motor.

Usually I see the rear cover seeping slow enough that a wipe down of the pan at each oil change is adequate to keep it in check.

Unless you are leaking a lot of oil, I don't see the need to replace any of these gaskets. But if you feel you must, then by all means...

If you plan on pulling the engine, here is a good writeup:

Removing Engine and Tranny Together for Dummies Like Me.pdf Engine and Tranny Together for Dummies Like Me.pdf

Heres a few links that will tell you alot of what you need to know and def help you out.

http://www.grandprixforums.net/f95/h...pan-17166.html
http://www.grandprixforums.net/f18/p...-up-10716.html
http://www.grandprixforums.net/torqu...ifications.php
L67 Engine Teardown - Thrasher Engineered Performance 3800 & 3800SC Pontiac Grand Prix GTP & Buick Regal GS

You will want to put the oil pan on after the front and rear covers. As they create the two ends that it seals to. When sealing a front or rear cover use a smear of RTV under and on top of the gasket at the bottom inch of each cover.

The rear cover bolts have a plastic piece on them. The purpose of the plastic is to center the cover for the crank seal.

When you go to do this work, I's suggest picking up a lower conversion gasket set. It'll have the WP, timing cover, rear cover, front and rear main seals etc etc. Usually the lower conversion set is the same price or less than an oil pan gasket alone.