Not starting- no spark, no fuel pump

**craigztoyz** · 06-12-2008

Hello, first post here. I bought this car, and need help to make it run.

2002 grand prix 3.1, ran great, parked for 10 minutes, and wont start since, so my friend sold it to me for a good deal.

the fuel pump is not turning on, so no fuel pressure, and their is no spark ( I used my timing light to check, numerous times to be sure). and now the gas guage reads full to the max.

It ran great and then wont start since. Starter is turning it over great, spins freely.

I assume not a crank or cam sensor issue due to no fuel pump too,
I assume that it is not really fuel pump/ relay related due to no spark.
I assume not a IGN issue due to it turns over great, key works great.

Fuses are good, Hoping this is a common problem. Searched, but did not see anything to help.
I build other kinds of hot rods, and the last GM car I had was my GN that i recently sold after 12 great years. Now I do VH45's in 300ZX's, and SHO's in RX7's. I appreciate the help.

I do not know much about this GP's ECU system, but I assume that it is an ECU problem or a sensor situation through it, that would cause it to not turn on FP, and Ign Sys.

Thanx for any help, Craig

**SyntheticShield** · 06-12-2008

If you are certain that the fuel pump is not priming and the fuses and electrical connectors are good, then you will probably need to start there and replace the pump or check the fuel filter and make sure that its not clogged. Better yet would be to get a fuel pressure gauge and hook it up to the schrader valve on the fuel rail and make certain there is no pressure. If there is then I would put the fuel pump issue aside.

The no spark issue could be several things. Bad coil pack (but would affect only two of the cylinders if only one is bad), bad ignition control module which could affect all the cylinders. The one other thing I can think of that would kill spark to everything would be the crankshaft position sensor. I dont know of anyway to test it but it will kill the motor if it goes bad. It has two parts in it. One controls the tach signal the other part controls the signal to the ignition control module to fire the plugs.

Barring any issue with fuses, connectors, wiring and such, I would suspect the CPS. Its a well known issue amongst GP's. Ive had my GP for not quite four years and Ive had to replace it twice.

And welcome to the community.

**craigztoyz** · 06-12-2008

Thanx,

I checked, no fuel pressure, and no spark.

I doubt that it has 2 different problems at the same time, but maybe

The cps, I thought about, and it seems like it is easier on this car then others, but how would it affect the other side of the problem? Thank you for the help.

**SyntheticShield** · 06-12-2008

The only way I can think of is that there is two separate problems. Now if your CPS is not behind the crank pulley yours may be different and may not control the two signals as mine does. My '89 GP had a CPS that, if I remember corectly, did not have a direct control over the ignition but dont quote me on that.

I have not seen the 3.1L in a GP so I cant speak from any base of experience, but I cant, at the moment, thing of something that would kill the fuel pump and take out the ignition as well, so I personally would treat them as separate issues until I knew differently. I would imagine the spark issue would be easier to work on, so I would start there and if you get spark and no fuel then you got half of it licked and know what to do next.

**SyntheticShield** · 06-12-2008

Oh, Im not sure on your vehicle, I would imagine its the same, but the fuel pump should be easy enough to replace. As far as I know, all the GP's have an access door in the trunk. So you can literally get in your back seat inside the car, drop the pass through door, lift up the carpet and open the access door to the fuel pump and begin taking it out. But again, please bear in mind I have no direct experience with the 3.1L so there could be subtle difference.

**02BlueGT** · 06-12-2008

could it be ignition switch related????

Did you check if the pcm has power, cause it may control the relays to turn the items on and off.....

The fuel pumps on the NA cars can be almost silent, to listen closely there is a panel right behind the rear-seat pass through under the carpet that is access to the fuel pump, remove the panel and listen closely while someone else turns the the key to the run position.

**02BlueGT** · 06-12-2008

If I remember correctly, the fuel pump turns off after 5 seconds if the engine isn't running, It judges if the engine is running by the signal from the CPS(through the PCM i Believe). So check your CPS and all the wiring to it cause that would cause the pump to run for no more than 5 seconds and no spark

Hope that helps

Edit, or also possible, failed ICM wont let the CPS signal through to the PCM (CPS signal runs through the ICM to get to PCM) thus causing fuel pump to stop running and no spark(from failed ICM)

**SyntheticShield** · 06-12-2008

Good points bud.

**craigztoyz** · 06-15-2008

Originally Posted by 02BlueGT

If I remember correctly, the fuel pump turns off after 5 seconds if the engine isn't running, It judges if the engine is running by the signal from the CPS(through the PCM i Believe). So check your CPS and all the wiring to it cause that would cause the pump to run for no more than 5 seconds and no spark

Hope that helps

Edit, or also possible, failed ICM wont let the CPS signal through to the PCM (CPS signal runs through the ICM to get to PCM) thus causing fuel pump to stop running and no spark(from failed ICM)

Where is the ICM located? I am used to them being at the coil pack, but can't find it.

Going to take out the icm and test it, as it is 80$, and if it is good, change the cps for 25, and see if that helps.

There is no fuel pressure in the line, making me wonder if it is even coming on for 5 sec.

Thank you for the help.

**02BlueGT** · 06-16-2008

Check power to the pump with a multimeter, it should read close to battery voltage for the 5 seconds,. (if you dont have a multimeter you can get em for like $10).....

Did you try the fuel pump relay? switch it with another relay in the underhood fuse box and see if you can get fuel pressure

**nickB** · 11-12-2009

The ICM is directly under the coil packs, take off all the packs and the module should come right off, besides disconecting a few plugs. Given the problems listed, i would have to agree with the fuel pump.

**buckeyeguy** · 12-10-2009

OK, guys I am also having issues with my fuel pump, but I believe that spark is fine. My pump is not running when I turn the ignition on. My question is....where or what pins should have voltage?

**buthead** · 12-17-2009

I agree with some of the coments, it is unlikly that you have multiple problems starting at the same time. One point that I read was that the fuel gauge is reading max. I incontred this on a mulibu with a 3.1 and it was the anti theft module, but if memory serves a had fuel presure. I would be looking in the direction of the ecm (if thats the term use). Good luck and let us know what you find.

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