Thread: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain

Results 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1 Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    SE Level Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jax Fl!
    Posts
    39
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    I haven't been able to find any info on this subject but since the 1" chain is so expensive to produce apparently and as far as I've read not in production currently why couldn't a double chain be used with two smaller chains? I'm not sure how many MEs there are on this board and I am still working on my undergraduate ME but I don't know any pro/cons to two smaller chains. Any insight? Seems like a cheaper alternative to the hard to find and expensive 1" chain for these transmissions.
    Last edited by Kyne; 11-28-2013 at 08:02 PM.
    2006 Holden Monaro I Black with Red I H/C/I
    2001 GTP I
    Red with Black I Stock DD

    Kyne Tuned
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    GTP Level Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    628
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    the factory setup is two chains currently. Its the strength that the GM Racing 1" provides
    2003 SSEi,
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #3 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    Donating Users 16MustangVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sh1t hole Afghanistan Currently
    Posts
    5,418
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    if your breaking 7/8th chain then you need to pay to play....... then you need to look into the zzp 1 inch chain zzperformance.com or ask around neither the zzp one or a real GMR 1 inch chain will be had for under 1k. GMR 1 inch chains to pop up in the classifieds once in a while because people demod all the time and quite honestly this is a dying platform so just troll the classifieds.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    SE Level Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jax Fl!
    Posts
    39
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Yeah I realize where to buy the chains, I'm wondering what the stresses are that a dual 1/2" chain set up isn't as strong as a single 1" or even a single 7/8" provides. What's the physics behind it. To me two 1/2" chains would seem to be stronger than a 7/8" but that's the upgrade. So would two 7/8" chains be stronger than a 1"? I assume there is only enough room for 1" so that wouldn't be feasible. Is it that the stock chains are made inferior too? Could the Gemini design be fixed and made stronger. Maybe I worded my question better this time.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    Awaiting Confirmation
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    aowdnawi
    Posts
    23,292
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    One set engages while the other disengages.

    So only one of the two is engaged at any given point in time.

    It's quieter, but not as strong.

    Another interesting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_...Chain_strength

    Seems it's all about the pitch. Width just happens to follow that.

    Strength also appears to go up much faster than chain width or even pitch does.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    Donating Users 16MustangVet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sh1t hole Afghanistan Currently
    Posts
    5,418
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    LOL if one is made of double 1/2" play-dough and the other is made out of 7/8" steel don't you think the 7/8" would be stronger. Its not the size that matters grass hopper its what its made out of and how the metal is treated. Hence why the zzp alternative chain is 1 inch but isn't as strong as the GMR ones.......
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #7 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    SE Level Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jax Fl!
    Posts
    39
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by matt5112 View Post
    One set engages while the other disengages.

    So only one of the two is engaged at any given point in time.

    It's quieter, but not as strong.

    Another interesting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_...Chain_strength

    Seems it's all about the pitch. Width just happens to follow that.

    Strength also appears to go up much faster than chain width or even pitch does.
    This makes sense, two chains only one is used at a time.

    Quote Originally Posted by 98GrandPrixIraqVet View Post
    LOL if one is made of double 1/2" play-dough and the other is made out of 7/8" steel don't you think the 7/8" would be stronger. Its not the size that matters grass hopper its what its made out of and how the metal is treated. Hence why the zzp alternative chain is 1 inch but isn't as strong as the GMR ones.......
    This doesn't really help.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    GXP Level Member coolone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    2,374
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    3
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    What he is saying is the material in the dual 1/2" chain is inferior to the material in the GMR (GM Racing) 1" chain... I'd run what you got till something breaks, then fix it, lol!

    As for the dying platform? Really? Only because nobody wants to sink $ into it and know it is a cheap man's raze Kar! Hahaha...

    But there are still plenty of these engines around, parts are available if you look for them and $ for $ is a good setup for a 2ton vehicle. I for one would rather find, fix and mod a GP, than pay $20k+ for a used beat to crap newer car that is supposed to be fast. At least with the GP I know what I got, lol.

    I have (3) by the way, so maybe I'm a little biased!
    Overkill BBC Cam, YT 1.8 RR's, Rhodes Lifters, STGII Heads, GenV, Pacesetters, 3" Exh to Tips, TEP Trans. N*, ID 75# injectors/E85 coming soon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #9 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    GTP Level Member Twizted 1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Summertown Tn
    Posts
    640
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    From what I've encountered in a 4t65e there's no way that only one chain can run at a time. Both chains drive the gears together. One chain doesn't disengage while the other engages.
    They are both engaged at all times.

    But the 7/8 and 1"chain are quite a bit stronger than the stock dual chains.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    SE Level Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Jax Fl!
    Posts
    39
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    The GTP is my DD/ drive in the rain car. I don't consider them to be very fast but it sucks that the engine is so good but it's mated to the Achilles heal of the platform with this transmission. If I want a powerful car I'll get in my GTO, but mine isn't best to crap and probably the cleanest GTO that I've ever seen.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #11 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    GXP Level Member GTPpower's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Schuyler, NE
    Posts
    2,972
    Thanks (Received)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    23
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Twizted 1 View Post
    From what I've encountered in a 4t65e there's no way that only one chain can run at a time. Both chains drive the gears together. One chain doesn't disengage while the other engages.
    They are both engaged at all times.

    But the 7/8 and 1"chain are quite a bit stronger than the stock dual chains.
    The gears are offset. So, only one chain is being pulled on at a time....well, not completely, but that's kind of how it works.


    2001 GTP Drag Car - XPZ, Tischler heads, Upsidedown M90 IC'd, e85, Gen V, 2.3 w/ 5%OD
    2005 F350 6.0 - studded, deleted, tuned
    2001 GTP - cam, headers, nitrous, stock trans - 11.83 @ 116 <$2k in mods - sold
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #12 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    GTP Level Member Twizted 1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Summertown Tn
    Posts
    640
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Ookie dokie..... Lol.

    The chains are the same length, the gears are offset the same amount.
    The only reason the gears are offset is because of the pins In the chains. It was designed to keep the pins on each chain from hitting one another, not for each chain to pull separately. The chains each pull the same at the same time.

    OP, unless your running over 300-320HP I would buy a set of Gemini dual chains from a 2004+ 4t65e and run the hell out of it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #13 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    GXP Level Member GTPpower's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Schuyler, NE
    Posts
    2,972
    Thanks (Received)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    23
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Twizted 1 View Post
    Ookie dokie..... Lol.

    The chains are the same length, the gears are offset the same amount.
    The only reason the gears are offset is because of the pins In the chains. It was designed to keep the pins on each chain from hitting one another, not for each chain to pull separately. The chains each pull the same at the same time.

    OP, unless your running over 300-320HP I would buy a set of Gemini dual chains from a 2004+ 4t65e and run the hell out of it.
    No, actually the reason the chains are offset, is to reduce the noise it makes. They produce opposite frequencies that cancel each other out.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #14 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    GTP Level Member Twizted 1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Summertown Tn
    Posts
    640
    Thanks (Received)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    0
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Yea that too.
    But it still doesn't have anything to do with the chains driving separately. Lol
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #15 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    I live here. 02NavyBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Where 4T65E's were born
    Posts
    5,067
    Thanks (Received)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    1
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    I think that when they say driving separately, that since they're offset, the most force goes through the one with the tooth at the right angle. Since they're not at the same angle, one may take more torque than the other, back and forth. Am I on the right track? I always knew they were offset to reduce noise but didn't think about any other differences til now.
    2006 Grand Prix GT S/C 109k - Modded Transgo Shift Kit, Gutted Airbox, Dash Cam, and Inlays. Retros soon to come.
    2002 Grand Prix GT N/A 127k - Same as 06 Plus: Trans Cooler, DIY Aux Input, LED lighting, Suspension Upgrades, Tint, Retrofits.
    Sold.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #16 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    GXP Level Member GTPpower's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Schuyler, NE
    Posts
    2,972
    Thanks (Received)
    8
    Likes (Received)
    23
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by 02NavyBlue View Post
    I think that when they say driving separately, that since they're offset, the most force goes through the one with the tooth at the right angle. Since they're not at the same angle, one may take more torque than the other, back and forth. Am I on the right track? I always knew they were offset to reduce noise but didn't think about any other differences til now.
    Yes, that's correct. That's not 100% the way it works, but it's close enough for this conversation.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #17 Re: Single 1" chain vs double 1/2" chain 
    I live here. 02NavyBlue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Where 4T65E's were born
    Posts
    5,067
    Thanks (Received)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    1
    Dislikes (Received)
    0
    I don't understand how that works or how it's possible to work like that, that's just what I picked up from reading this thread lol
    2006 Grand Prix GT S/C 109k - Modded Transgo Shift Kit, Gutted Airbox, Dash Cam, and Inlays. Retros soon to come.
    2002 Grand Prix GT N/A 127k - Same as 06 Plus: Trans Cooler, DIY Aux Input, LED lighting, Suspension Upgrades, Tint, Retrofits.
    Sold.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Omg 1" chain
    By MoarkatsINmuhtrailer in forum General Grand Prix Discussion
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 07-22-2013, 08:17 PM
  2. Gemini dual chain or 7/8" single?
    By crbquist in forum 1997-2007 4 speed Automatic (4T65E) (4T65E-HD)
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-03-2013, 06:10 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •