Thread: Official 4t65e-HD Rebuild

I think I paid $10 qt, I had in store credit so I decided to splurge and use it since I didn't need anything else.

Trannyman

The 2nd drum bushings were giving me big time issues. The 1 side when in no problems, but the 2nd bushing seemed to be slightly to big. I spent almost 45 minutes trying to get it in. I put the bushing in the freezer and took even the torch to heat up the drum slightly so it was almost to warm to handle by hand. The bushing kept wanting to go in crooked, and I eventually got it in. The bushing was marred in a spot, and it a slight wave as if the bushing was to big and thats was why it was giving me issues.





I had to put one of my bushing drivers inside the bushing to prevent it from getting deformed. Then I took a big metal bushing driver and put it over the one pictured to actually get it to go in.



My battle damage fighting with the bushing That bushing owned me.





You think I should just wait until Monday and buy another set of bushings from transtar (unless they sell individually), or should I not even bother. IF your curious as to why the bushing is not as shiny as the other one, I assembled it onto the other piece and spun it to make sure it fit fine as well as not making any weird sounds when I spun it. I figure the bushing is some type of copper/tri metal composition that is softer than the steel that rubs against it. If there were any high spots or slight bumps in the bushing, they would get pushed down and shouldn't grind or fall apart. That is assumption, but what do I know.

Not sure what to tell you on the Z-pack as I have never used one but you should be able to send an email right to Raybestos and get install instructions if you cant find them on their website. The wave plate is the first plate -wavy by name and physical appearance that goes in a stock clutch stackup. The backing plate is the one that goes against the snap ring and is the thickest plate in a stock setup. For second clutch if you are adding thicker steels I prefer to put them in the middle of the clutch pack to help dissapate heat better since you have thick plates on both ends and all thin in the middle. Two thicker steels should put you right on the mark and you dont need much clearance at all in this clutch pack. For the bushing on the drum I would definately replace it and yes they are sold seperately. I have plenty of singles if you need one or cant get it from your supplier. That is probably the worst bushing in the whole trans to install and I sometimes go through a few as they dont like to start square.

Trannyman

Do you recommend using green scotchbrite on the accumulator housing assembly. I forgot where I might have read this but supposedly it helps the pistons seals to stay lubed. Would you also recommend the same thing done to the 2-1 manual servo housing,3-4 accumulator housing, as well as the forward and reverse pistons areas.

Now theres a guy that Im going to be great friends with, using Amsoil ATF. But Ive learned something from Trannyman though. Amsoil ATF comes in around a low 20 weight fluid. Trannyman uses a thicker fluid that I was not aware that you could use in a transmission. So if I dont end up getting my fluid from him, then I'll get my hands on some 30 weight Amsoil Synthetic ATF. They also sell 40 and 50 weight tranny fluids, but I would think those would be too thick for all but industrial type applications.

Originally Posted by SyntheticShield

Now theres a guy that Im going to be great friends with, using Amsoil ATF. But Ive learned something from Trannyman though. Amsoil ATF comes in around a low 20 weight fluid. Trannyman uses a thicker fluid that I was not aware that you could use in a transmission. So if I dont end up getting my fluid from him, then I'll get my hands on some 30 weight Amsoil Synthetic ATF. They also sell 40 and 50 weight tranny fluids, but I would think those would be too thick for all but industrial type applications.

So which of these fluids are you going to use if you don't use trannyman's

AMSOIL Synthetic Transmission Fluid

Scotchbrite to all accumulator bores is a good idea as this gives the fluid a place to retain and prevent the seal from sticking in the bore which can cause the piston to cock and wear the pin and can also bind and cause odd shift behavior. Dont use it where lip seals go as it may tear the seal up over time. This was a bulletin in the aftermarket world a long time ago that was noted to do in most fwd GM and Ford transmissions.

I was thinking of using this one:

AMSOIL - Synthetic Powershift Transmission Fluid SAE 30 (CTJ)

The problem with it is that I do not believe it has any friction modifiers in it. If that is the case, it could provide a bit harsher shifts than I would like and Im not sure if it would be good for the transmission. However, if I can tone that aspect of it down I think it would work well.

Ive used this before (not in the GP):

AMSOIL - Super Shift® Racing Transmission Fluid (ART)

But I used it in a mixture with regular Amsoil ATF. Ive still got some research to do but I think the ISO 30 fluid would work. Amsoil makes a friction modifier, but it is intended for gear lubes, so Im not sure how well it would mix with or work with ATF. It has been for these reasons that I have given more weight to using Trannymans mix, but I hate to not use a synthetic fluid as I like the reduction in temps it gives. We'll have to see. Im a ways from that decision point yet.

Transtec View on Scotchbrite


Rubber Accumulator Seals
The lathe (square) cut accumulator seals in this kit are TransTec’s aftermarket design seals. The
dimensions are slightly different, and the material is more abrasion-resistant than the OEM seals. The
design of these seals was improved because of occasional wear problems with the OEM seals. The
transmissions most affected are the 4T60/E and AXOD, due in part to the design of these accumulators.
The following steps should be taken on every overhaul to prevent premature seal wear:
1) Always rinse the case to remove any soap film left from the parts washer. The soap acts as an
abrasive that causes seal wear.
2) Always resurface the accumulator bores with Scotch Brite®. A smooth bore has no place to hold
oil for lubrication. Without lubrication, seals wear out prematurely. (Scotch Brite is available through
parts stores, body shop suppliers, or tool distributors).
3) Always check the accumulator piston-to-pin fit, especially on the aluminum pistons in the 4T60/E.
Any wear here will cause the piston to wobble in the bore and wear out the seal.


Source: http://www.transtec.com/tech_insert/IS-4T65E-5.pdf

Trannyman

I have a few more questions

Is the o-ring that goes on the input shaft by the torque converter green

I some how manage to strip one of the bolts that holds the pressure sensor to the valve body. Its the silver looking bolt thats missing that I believe is suppose to be torqued to 70 in lbs ( I got up to around 50 in lbs or so). I have no idea why that one stripped, considering all the other ones went in no problem. Do you think I should tap that hole and move up from a 6mm to a 7mm bolt? Oh yeah, I used a torque wrench and even double checked it with my spare.



Here is my not so pretty diff squirter. It was flowing a little to much so I had to crimp the tube a bit more to restrict some of the flow. I took a garden hose and turned the water on low and the picture shows the results. That was my 3rd tube I constructed since it was a pain to get the flow just right without restricitng the main feed. Hopefully tomorrow evening after work I can get the trans installed and take it for a test run (will be really late). Or worse case senario, it will be done Wednesday as long as theirs no more issues.





I had to shim my input input/forward drum .020 (sonnax shim)




My new Toy

Great work to say the least. How did you join the diff squirter tube to the other one? Any reason why you didnt just use some type of Y connection to the rubber line?

Nice Diff! Youll have to post back as to how well it works and how cornering feels with it, its a salty upgrade and costs what a whole trans costs but if it works good and you can swing and it lasts then it is the best option for an upgrade. For the diff squirter you made it looks like you have way too much water coming out, the ones that I have seen in ZZP trans are near crimped completely shut on the end. Keep in mind that is main geartrain lube, if you are bleeding off too much then you are going to starve the geartrain-bearings-bushings for much needed lube oil and cook the trans in a matter of miles. For the small bolt that you said stripped I have seen them do this before. The screws are self tapping if you look at them and sometimes the threads are destroyed. If you can find a helicoil kit then that is the best way to fix it and most Napa stores sell them.

I'll crimp the end tighter and post pics later again.

What kind of differential is that by the way? Looks a little different. I assume from Trannyman's comments its a torsen or something?

Originally Posted by SyntheticShield

What kind of differential is that by the way? Looks a little different. I assume from Trannyman's comments its a torsen or something?

Torsen all the way. The only way to get that diff is through GM (which is on nationwide backorder), as Torsen and GM have some type of deal. I had my brothers close friend who works for GM Racing division pull a few strings and was able to get me one after 1 about a month. He told me they made a batch of 8 and are hanging onto the other 7 or so. He mentioned to me that if people were interested he could get them for $1400 (that was in June with a 1 week turn around time). I jumped on the deal since they normally go through paceperformance for $1730+shipping.

Well I ran into another problem tonight. My trans pan bolts are 8mm where as the Transtar rebuild kit was 6mm bolt holes. I tossed my original trans pan gasket since I had the new one in my rebuild kit. Thankfully my brother had a rebuild kit at his place thats from 05 which had 8mm bolt holes so that only set me back 1 hr or so (plus me purchasing the rebuild kit from him, I got this kit relatively cheap so I really can't complain).

I then went to install my new side pan gasket and go figure it doesn't match up. I ordered it through paceperformance along with torque converter botls, cradle bolts and a few other gaskets and what not for other jobs.





Trannyman do rebuild precision torque converters come with new bushings installed. My bushing looks like it has a little marring, but that might have been from them checking torque converter endplay. I also purchased new torque converter bolts as I believe their TTY bolts. Do you recommend using loctite on them or no.




Diff squirter crimped tighter






Sonnax Diff lube fitting




Trannyman what exactly does the thermo element do? I'm assuming its for temperature and the spring steel flexes based on heat.

Originally Posted by SyntheticShield

Great work to say the least. How did you join the diff squirter tube to the other one? Any reason why you didnt just use some type of Y connection to the rubber line?

I drilled into the steel tube in small increments (lots of bits) to make sure their were no metal burs stuck inside the tube. I took compressed air to the tube to blow out any metal dust. I then took some copper tubing from my A/C service department, and fabbed it up. I took some flux to the tubing and then brazed them using silver solder. My service department was out so I just picked some up from our local Johnston supplier and that crap costed around $42 the flux ($7) and 25% silver solder ($35 for 20 inches). The company hasn't billed me yet, that could be because the vice president and I get along great and I help out with car issues and our service trucks.

I really didn't want any more rubber lines as I don't trust flexible tubing. I was tempted to do an AN setup with 1/8 tubing with a misting nozzle on the end made for petroleum products. That setup would have costed me a bit more, plus the fact that my car would be down even longer. I need to get it back up and running as my summer is winding down and I'm back off to school this fall. I need to make sure its rock solid as I'll have a heavy class load, and I'll be living in the apartments outside the university. That means I won't have access to a lot of my brothers tools if my car breaks down and it's 50 miles away.

Can you shed any more light on the AN set up with the misting nozzle. Any parts suggestions and stuff like that? I kinda like that idea. Any thoughts on how you would have implemented that?

The side cover gasket you showed was for a 4T60E, not a 65. This is also why the lower pan gasket worked because they had the larger 8mm bolts. The 8mm hole pan gaskets are not available from the aftermarket nor do they come in kits and is a dealer only part, which conviniently most dealerships dont stock so you have to order them. The converters definately all come with new bushings. The marks you see are likely because the converters are normally spun on a machine after they are assembled for balancing and testing and there will be some minimal wear marks on them if any.

I'm going to my local transtar as they have the metal side gasket in stock. I should have it all buttoned u p later tonight as long as nothing comes up.

I have the trans all assembled and its bolted to the engine. It took me a good 1-1.5 hrs last night trying to get the engine and trans to align. My issue was from the car being jacked up, it was at an angle from the traditional incline of the driveway. While installing the trans, I had to shim the front of it to match the same angle of the car in the driveway. I was tempted to lower the car but I figured it would be easier just to shim the trans. My friend showed up later and in about 5 mins we had the two together(needed him to push the trans towards the engine while I pushed the engine to the passenger side.

Tonights goal is to have the cradle reinstalled with a bunchof odds and ends that I have to take care of.

Friday will be finishing any other loose ends, replacing driverside spindle (I was careless and damaged the ball joint area in the spindle). Finish my headlight harness wiring and then hopefully go for a ride. If not friday evening, it will happen Saturday. I hope that everything works alright, as I really don't want to take the trans out again.